Swaty surprise

Johnny J · 06-24-2008, 12:23 AM

I've always wanted to try a Swaty but every one I bid on got swiped out from under me, so I bid on 2, hoping to get 1...and got them both (!) The first one arrived today & I was shocked by how coarse & aggressive it is. It's almost as coarse as my cushioned strop hones! Are all Swatys like this? And are you meant to shave right off the hone?! Hard to imagine that would feel good.

nun2sharp · 06-24-2008, 12:29 AM

Is it a 2 or 3 line swaty? I have a 3 line and hear that the 2 line swaty is somewhat coarser.

Johnny J · 06-24-2008, 12:50 AM

Update: I got the other hone. One is a 2-line and the other is a 3-line. Are you sure you don't have that backwards? The 3-line (the one I was talking about in the original post) is so coarse, it might just replace 1500-grit sandpaper for establishing a bevel. The 2-line is a lot finer; one could conceivably shave off it (though the Gem & Lithide hones are both finer still).

nun2sharp · 06-24-2008, 04:49 AM

Backwards? Maybe, I dont havethe2 line swaty to make the comparison.

randydance062449 · 06-24-2008, 11:25 AM

There is no guarantee of grit size in barber hones. They vary, sometimes a lot.

Carney barker.... "Step right up! Pay your money and take your chances! Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose".

Hones are seldom a loss, you need to figure out where in the honing process a particular hone fits.

Just my two cents,

English · 06-24-2008, 03:21 PM

I had a swaty. It was an Austrian swaty. I sold it. But as I recall it was a good finishing hone. I also remember it improved significantly when I lapped a fresh flat surface on it using 1000 grit wet and dry sandpaper (used wet).

joke1176 · 06-24-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English

I had a swaty. It was an Austrian swaty. I sold it. But as I recall it was a good finishing hone. I also remember it improved significantly when I lapped a fresh flat surface on it using 1000 grit wet and dry sandpaper (used wet).

English raises a good point. Did you lap em first?

Bruce · 06-24-2008, 08:22 PM

Joke raises a good point, too. It's possible that the previous owner tried the "lap it on a concrete block" technique that someone advocated a while ago. As we all know, concrete blocks are not guaranteed to be flat and must be lapped themselves, on a select section of fully cured sidewalk, to be at their full performance potential.

--tongue inserted so far into cheek my fingers are choking

Johnny J · 06-24-2008, 11:15 PM

Yes, I lapped both of them on sandpaper, using a piece of thick plate glass that I keep for that purpose.

I've had a chance to play with them a bit more. I now believe the 3-line Swaty is actually COARSER than my cushioned strop hone (!) It is also very fast-cutting and has a much higher coefficient of friction than any of my other hones. I think the 2-line Swaty sits somewhere between the C.S. hone and the Gem hone. I think the Swaty-3 will be useful for completely resetting the bevel on edges that I've convexed into oblivion with the Cr02.

I think Randy is on the money here: barber hones have a lot of variance in grit size from batch to batch.

BTW, both hones say "AUSTRIA" on them, if that matters.

Chris L · 06-25-2008, 02:16 AM

Wow, if your 3 line is that coarse, you definitely got one from a bad batch! I have a 3 line that I recently picked up and aside from the brown color, the appearance of the hone and it's fineness reminds me of a high grit ceramic stone. If the swaty was white instead of brown, with it's mottled appearance, I would even say it looks identical to somewhere between my Shapton 8k and Shapton 16k! By far the smoothest and hardest barber hone I have personally owned.

Interestingly, if you look at the back of the 3rd edition of Straight Razors, there is an old advertisement for instructions on honing, some hone refresher and something else. In that same offer back then.....they also say that they include a Swaty (I think it's a 3 line IIRC) for free. That's right, they GAVE AWAY swatys as part of an offer for something else.

Chris L

Johnny J · 06-25-2008, 12:02 PM

It may be from a bad batch, but ironically I still have a use for it. Even the C.S. hone is too slow for setting a bevel completely from scratch. Because patience for tedious tasks is not one of my virtues, I tend to fall back to 5 swipes on 1000-grit sandpaper. Hardware stores around me don't carry it, so I've been looking for something else to use instead. I was considering buying a soft Arkansas stone, but they're pretty slow-cutting too. This hone might just do the trick.

Interesting that your Swaty is the finest hone you've ever seen. My Swaty-2 is finer than the Swaty-3, but I still wouldn't call it a finishing hone. It's not as smooth as the Gem, definitely not as smooth as the Lithide. If I had to shave off it, I'd polish the hell out of it with Cr02 first.

English · 06-25-2008, 01:15 PM

You have been unlucky. My swaty was not disimilar to my coticule.That's why I sold it, I didn't need two similar hones.Price wise however, the swaty is a honing bargain.

Incidentally, 1000 or 1500 grit wet and dry paper is outstanding for bevel setting.In my opinion, it's not the poor man's choice. For me it is the go to option. Actually a diamond hone is probably the cheaper option if you do a lot of renovation work. In England, you can buy packs of wet and dry from the car parts and accessories shops (Halfords as an example). It's used a lot for body repair work.The worst paper comes from Norton and the best from either Halfords own label or from various German manufacturers. Better quality paper has a more consistant grit size. I use the paper dry if I want a strong cutting action which I do for bevel setting. I use the same paper wet for lapping natural hones.

It doesn't have to be a glass surface, just a perfectly flat surface. I find that double sided sticky tap along the edge holds it in place just fine and stops it curling up at the edges. I've got some tape which is used for putting the rubber handles on golf clubs. It is double side, inexpensive and very effective.

JimmyHAD · 06-25-2008, 03:29 PM

I have a 3 line Swaty. I used to use it (lapped) as a finisher after my Norton 4/8 until I picked up a Shapton Pro 12K. I found the Swaty worked very well. In another thread on the Swaty it was mentioned that one side may be coarser then the other. If you haven't tried both sides you might give the opposite side a go. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Johnny J · 06-25-2008, 11:21 PM

English;

That's interesting. Next time I have to set a bevel, I'll try the bad Swaty & see how it compares to sandpaper.

Jimmy;

On my hone, the back side is glossy & glazed, it has clearly never been lapped or used. Are you sure both sides are meant to be used? It sure doesn't look like it. Or is the effect you mention an unintended side effect of Swaty's manufacturing process? (i.e. that the heavy grit sinks to the bottom of the mold)

Chris L · 06-27-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny J

Interesting that your Swaty is the finest hone you've ever seen. My Swaty-2 is finer than the Swaty-3, but I still wouldn't call it a finishing hone. It's not as smooth as the Gem, definitely not as smooth as the Lithide. If I had to shave off it, I'd polish the hell out of it with Cr02 first.

To be clear, the 3 line Swaty I have is the finest barber hone I've owned. You probably meant that but I wanted to clarify. I own a Lithide, and without question my 3 line Swaty is significantly finer. Even after being lapped, it's smoothness equals the 8000 grit Shapton ceramic and feels even a bit smoother than that which supports Jimmy's (Slant-Fan) usage of the 3 line as a finisher after his 4000/8000. I have not really used my 3 line extensively yet so I can't comment on its actual polishing ability and where I think it fits in compared to other stones I have, right now I can only comment on it's visual and tactile qualities. Also mine looks and feels exactly the same on both the top and bottom sides after both are lapped.

Chris L

Sticky · 06-27-2008, 08:41 PM

All my Swatys (both 2 and 3 lines) are great finishing hones. My guess is results somewhere between 9k to 11k (depending on how light a finish stroke you can get). Your Swaty sounds defective or maybe it sat in some chemical for a while.

And whatever you do; do not lap your concrete block lapping device on a sidewalk. Sidewalks are nowhere near flat enough.

Just because some woodworkers, and other old-timers, have used (or do currently use) a concrete block for lapping, is no reason for you to actually try such a simple solution yourself...

JimmyHAD · 06-28-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny J

English;

That's interesting. Next time I have to set a bevel, I'll try the bad Swaty & see how it compares to sandpaper.

Jimmy;

On my hone, the back side is glossy & glazed, it has clearly never been lapped or used. Are you sure both sides are meant to be used? It sure doesn't look like it. Or is the effect you mention an unintended side effect of Swaty's manufacturing process? (i.e. that the heavy grit sinks to the bottom of the mold)

I would imagine setting a bevel on a Swaty would be a day's work. The old barber I got mine from kept one in the pocket of his smock and when in the middle of a shave the razor needed a touch up he would give it a very few swipes. I lapped both sides of mine and either side worked. I am not sure if there is a difference in the grit. Probably not. Here is a thread where forum members with Swatys and experience voice their opinions.