Spine too thick at the shoulder??

Jasper Kade · 07-10-2008, 09:50 PM

Hey everyone,

Got a strange question here, maybe it's a stupid question I don't know. I just got this 1907 Joseph Rodgers set the other day, and they look great, like NOS under the water spots, I see no hone wear on the spines at all. The set has a box with a silver shield saying it was awarded to so and so in 1907 in Belfast, so it appears this guy treated it like an award and never used it but got it wet one day and left it for 100 years or so..

Now the thing is, when I lay the blades down on a glass surface I notice the spine isn't flush with the edge on the surface.. the edge is straight as an arrow, but the actual spine seems to thicken or bulge out at the shoulder?? This isn't the case with my Henckels for instance, which is also NOS, at that point near the shoulder you can see it was ground flush with the rest of the spine from the factory - so as to lay flat when honing..

So now I'm wondering why all 6 of these seemingly new razors have this bulging spine? And what should I do now? Hone 'around' the bulge, or grind that portion of the spine flush with the rest?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated..

holli4pirating · 07-10-2008, 10:35 PM

The two ways I'd approach the problem are:

1: Use a rolling X pattern and try to wear all parts of the razor equally.

2. When honing, turn the razor such that you lead your stroke with the heal. This might allow the heal of the razor to touch the hone without the bulging part of the spine resting on the hone.

Do you have any pics? I'm curious.

Jasper Kade · 07-10-2008, 11:32 PM

Hi there,

I've thought about the rolling x, but it just seems to make more sense to just sand the bulge flush with the rest of the spine so the edge can be honed in a uniform manner, I wish I knew why it is made like this, and so I think maybe there is a reason and I just don't know enough about old sheffield blades. I don't want to change them in any way from how they were designed, so I guess I want to know if other folks have blades like this, or is this perhaps a defect on ALL six of my razors?? seems strange though.

Anyways, here are some images to show what I mean. I think the rolling x is the only real solution, so maybe it is intended to be honed like that.

English · 07-10-2008, 11:35 PM

I recently honed a totally unused old 100 years + sheffield carbon steel blade.

The blade was totally blunt but brand new. The spine was thicker at the heel than the tip. It also did not lay flat on glass.

Anyway, I set the bevel using 1000 grit wet and dry paper (dry). What I found is that not only is the bevel edge set but the honing edge along the spine is also developed and any unevenness disappears very quickly.

I think you might have to bite the bullet and re-establish the honing edges. After this the blade should lay flat on glass

The fact the blade was totally blunt I found interesting. Maybe in those days the factories left it to the barbers to put an edge on the new blades. If this was the case, it may explain why the likes of DOVO put out new blades with less than sharp edges.

English · 07-10-2008, 11:45 PM

Just looked at your photo's.

My blade had the same spine shape. Believe me, it will settle perfectly if you do about 10 to 15 return passes on 1000 grit paper. The fist 5 should be with heavy pressure, then 5 gentle pressure then five blade weight pressure.

But if you don't believe me ( I would be a bit worried if I had a set of seven) maybe send them to a honing specialist who has handled the problem before.

You shouldn't have to roll anything. That is a standard vintage razor. Like the one I had, it looks brand new and unused and unhoned.

One final thing, the honing will put a smile on the blade towards the tip. But if you look, the spine has a smile and you would expect the edge to match it.

Maybe the thickening of the spine is deliberate to effect this matching smile on the blade edge automatically as you hone.

Bruno · 07-11-2008, 07:17 AM

That is very normal. I have seen several razors on which the spine is just a bit thicker than the shoulder.

This is to prevent problems after the razor has been honed several times.
The idea is that you remove some metal fromt he edge to make a razor sharp. But this also means that you remove metal from the spine.

If the spine was exactly as thick as the shoulder, it would get thinner over time. Because no every hongin stroke is equal, you'd get a gradual difference in thickness. If you then hone, the honing angle will vary during the stroke, and it will be impossible to get a really optimal edge. I've seen this before with razors that were honed too harshly.
The additional thickness also prevents the shoulders from touching the hone, thus allowing you to start each honing stroke with the heel on the stone.

By making the spine thicker, the area of the spine that touches the hone is always the same, as is the metal removal. This is definitely NOT something you want to change.
If you remove this extra metal, you will get ugly wear, but you will also mess up the honing angles for good. In short: you will destroy your razor if you do that.
That thickness is there for a good reason. leave it.

Bruno · 07-11-2008, 07:19 AM

Also: the reason your blade is not touching the paper is probably because it rests on the pivot pin, instead of the shoulder.

Jasper Kade · 07-11-2008, 09:50 AM

Thanks Bruno. That makes me feel a lot better - luckily I haven't touched them yet. I'ts still confusing though, since my other razors all have equal spines, my henckels even has the shoulder area on the spine deliberately ground flat with the rest of the spine, almost like that area is fatter due to some manufacturing process and has been ground away to make the blade lay flat, but on these others it's like it's just been left alone..

Also the blade is loose, I took the scales off to start restoring them, so it's not the pivot pin - actually if it was then you must think I'm really some kinda eedeeot

Thanks again.

littlesilverbladefromwale · 07-11-2008, 11:18 AM

If I had a Rodgers 7 day set with those beautiful shaped blades, I, because of my hit-and-miss honning skills would send them out to an expert for their first edge. I would then touch-them-up later when needed. I'm sure some honemiester would give you a job-lot price to hone all 7.
good luck M.

Oh! BTW, In the bottom picture you have sent, the whole side of the blade and tang is on the paper, in reality when the razor was being honed, it would be at angle angle heel leading and the blade (only) would be touching the hone and I bet the whole EDGE would be in contact with the hone.
If your unsure leave it to a Miester.
Or you could just send those razors to me where they would be looked after like the Crown Jewels. !

Jasper Kade · 07-11-2008, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the advice. I know the uneveness of the edge is exaggerated a bit by the overall thickness of the tang on the surface, this was just the easiest way to take a pic of it. When laying the blade portion only on a slab of glass as if to hone it, the edge still does what the image above shows, but to a lesser degree. With the heel leading and using a slight rolling x pattern, I'm sure they will sharpen up real nice. Thanks everyone again for all the advice. When these razors are completely restored with the new wenge scales I'm having engraved, they'll be my daily shavers. I'll post again with lots of images....

littlesilverbladefromwale · 07-11-2008, 01:18 PM

Nice one Jasper. I really like the shape of the blades.

Jasper Kade · 07-11-2008, 01:41 PM

Thanks, though these pics are quite poor. The blades are all around 6/8 round point, except for one which is a real nice french point. They've all got 'the hamburg ring' deep etched on the front of the blade. But you'll see when they're done...thanks again.