[Russel Baldridge]

Originally Posted by Johnny J

The mail delivery service in my area is so incredibly lousy, I'm getting cold feet about mailing the W&B. Just the other day they delivered a sizeable IRS refund check to my next door neighbor, and another razor I bought to a lady who lives in a house with the same number, but on a different street. She dropped it into a mailbox marked "re-deliver" and they sent it right back to her.

Glen, how do you feel about doing this experiment with my Famous Double Arrow instead? It's a very good shaver but I'm not emotionally attached to it. I've got a lot of work in the W&B and it is my favorite razor. I would be pretty upset if those clowns delivered it to god-knows-where, as they seem to be doing with more & more of my mail.

You could get the package insured with a signature required to accept it or something like that.

[Johnny J]

Glen & I agreed to do the experiment using a Double Arrow, a very good shaver with a similar grind to the W&B.

I seem to have a new problem now. Immediately after honing, I have a devastatingly sharp edge which makes it way too easy to nick myself, and it takes a shave or two for it to calm down. The Cr02 would probably fix that, but would fix it by convexing the edge, which I'm trying to avoid.

I've heard that new Feather blades are also way too sharp, & some Feather users slice their new blades into a wine cork to simulate those first two shaves. I've also heard of a honemeister (forgot his name) who slices into a piece of water-soaked horn as the last step of honing.

Are any of these ideas worth trying? Or is it better just to be extra careful for the first 2 shaves?

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Johnny J

Glen & I agreed to do the experiment using a Double Arrow, a very good shaver with a similar grind to the W&B.

I seem to have a new problem now. Immediately after honing, I have a devastatingly sharp edge which makes it way too easy to nick myself, and it takes a shave or two for it to calm down. The Cr02 would probably fix that, but would fix it by convexing the edge, which I'm trying to avoid.

I've heard that new Feather blades are also way too sharp, & some Feather users slice their new blades into a wine cork to simulate those first two shaves. I've also heard of a honemeister (forgot his name) who slices into a piece of water-soaked horn as the last step of honing.

Are any of these ideas worth trying? Or is it better just to be extra careful for the first 2 shaves?

Here is a pic I took of a brand new Feather DE blade at 200x


A pic of my Wusthof at 200x, fresh off the 1 micron diamond lapping film:


The very same edge after stropping on a chrome ox cavas hanging strop, 200x:


I just built a balsa paddle strop for the chrome ox, as I wasn't too psyched about the rounding I saw going on. But I haven't got around to getting the newly balsa ox'ed edge under the scope yet..

I find brand new Feathers to be smoother feeling than any of my straights. Looking at the pics, it would seem that they have a slightly rougher edge to them. They are smoother feeling due to the PFTE coating that they apply to them.

Perhaps convexing the edge isn't such a bad thing if it gives a nice and comfortable shave?

[Bart]

I would give it some time. Give your shaving technique the chance to adapt to another level of keeness.

About the wet horn: I know a razor store owner in Antwerp, who hones his customer's razors as a free post-sale service. He uses a wetted piece of horn after honing on a coticule with slurry, and before he jumps to a padlle strop with red Dovo paste. He says it's to remove a possible bur and that he learned that trick during a visit at the Dovo factory. His methods are very controversial according to the general believes on SRP. But his edges do shave. They're not ultra sharp, but sharp enough for many of his Belgian customers. His hosts a very successful straight shaving and honing course in Ghent and in Antwerp.

I would not drag an edge over my wetted thumbnail, after a certain point in my honing sequence. I believe a piece of wet horn would have the same effect.

Best regards,
Bart.

[Johnny J]

Wow Seraphim, thanks for posting those pics! Very valuable stuff. To your question: rounding is not such a bad thing, it does give a smoother & more comfortable shave, but next time you touch up, you have to undo the rounding, which means more work on the hone. (Or touch up on the chrome ox, making the rounding even worse). I'd like to find a better way.

Bart, thx for the details on the wet horn thing. You've convinced me; I'll just try to get used to the new level of keenness.

Here's something I might try in the future: touching up first on the hone, then on the chrome ox, so the level of rounding remains constant. Since I just started using the linen, I don't yet know how long I can go between touch-ups. But if the interval turns out to be shorter than a month, I'm not going to be terribly enthusiastic about doing all that edge re-shaping at each & every touch-up.

[kevint]

ahhh I just watched the Dovo video a couple days ago. I wondered what she was wiping the edge on.

[Russel Baldridge]

Originally Posted by Johnny J

But if the interval turns out to be shorter than a month, I'm not going to be terribly enthusiastic about doing all that edge re-shaping at each & every touch-up.

In my (limited) experience with CrO, if the amount of reshaping required is noticeable, you are using too much paste.

I frequently put micro bevels on my razors that ought to be significantly larger than the rounding caused by CrO, and a coticule has no problem flattening them in a matter of a minute or two.

Can anybody weigh in on how long it takes them to restore their "pasted" bevels?

[blueprinciple]

I'm quite surprised that you need to hone it every month - do you use it every day? It sounds to me like you might be over-honing just a touch and that the subsequent stropping does smooth it out. Personally I like to take the edge as far as I can on the stones before stropping, then I seldom need more than 15 - 20 strokes. Never use linen either. Works for me!

[Johnny J]

Hey Blue, I have an unbelievably tough beard & do 3-pass shaves every day with the same razor. Until recently, I also had some issues with my honing technique which you will see in detail earlier in this thread.

Since there were 3 separate factors contributing to the problem, I don't yet know which one(s) was the cause. I've corrected the problems with my honing, but the other two factors are still present. We'll see what happens. I haven't been shaving with my new improved edges long enough to know what my new touch-up interval will be.

I've heard others say that the toughness of your beard should not make a difference to edge durability. I'll give this theory a chance, but I find it hard to believe. My buddy Sam goes a whole month on the same Mach 3 cartridge. Back when I was using them, I got about 3 decent shaves.

Anyhoo, on to Russel's tip about using too much Cr02. That's a definite possibility. My loom strop came coated with Cr02 on one side from the factory, and it is an unbelievably thick coating; it looks like a pool table. I was also doing 20 laps, and from what I'm now reading, I should be doing more like 5 laps.

So maybe I'll use some 1000 grit sandpaper to remove the excess Cr02 and give it 5 laps after honing. That could be just enough to smooth it out. FWIW, I've got the loom strop set as tight as it will go, so I'm confident that I don't have any sag in the strop.

[Russel Baldridge]

Just wipe it with a towel a few times (or a rag that you don't mind getting green crap on).

The sand paper could deposit grit onto the stropping surface = not a good thing for your razor.

[barneycg]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Graham:
Yes I remember that thread as well we were discussing the merits of the blade really coming into being sharp after the first shave, and then about restropping with a pasted strop to attain the most from the edge.. I just looked for it also.... it is still on here but buried deep....

Don't leave me in suspense ... please post a link

Barney

[gssixgun]

Originally Posted by barneycg

Don't leave me in suspense ... please post a link

Barney

I found it
Razor 'Peaking'

[Johnny J]

I PMed Puffah, since his advice so far has been spot-on & I wasn't sure he was still following this thread. Here is his advice, enshrined for posterity:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuFFaH

Hey Johnny
I would need to know what type of strop and how many reps you are doing prior to a shave to help answer that.
If the edge is like you say then this can be smoothed by a few on the linen. This I would do with toe leading X pattern and with a BAR tight strop and no weight on the razor. This would be followed by 50 laps on a good drawing strop or a russian finish.
When I have got an edge like you describe, I generally have found it to be where I have got the edge to exact sharpness...but just went a stroke over or so. Stropping will correct this no problem and if you have a finer hone this would also. CrO2 will ruin a fresh edge so try not to resort to it.
As a help to me, did the lightest touch shave clean and leave no stubble, or was weight or multi passing on an area needed to remove the stubble?
Cheers for the heads up on your progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny J
I have an antique horsehide strop, and I do 100 laps on the leather before the first shave after I've honed. Normally, I do 50 laps. I've never stropped with a toe-leading X, normally I do a heel-leading X.

The first two shaves after honing do shave clean & leave no stubble, but I tend to nick myself all to hell. The edge is unforgiving & leaves no room for error. Hmmm, maybe *I* am the problem, not the razor. Perhaps I have simply become accustomed to shaving with razors that are slightly less sharp.

I'd like to move this to the thread so it can be enshrined for posterity. I think this is turning out to be a very useful thread!

PS: The Lithide barber hone is the finest hone in my set-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuFFaH

100 is over the top post hone. 50 should be more than enough. Only strop toe leading on linen and pasted strops to help align an edge followed by a few in the normal X pattern.
This nicking problem you have now I would put down to you having to adjust your technique and pressure to suit the sharper edge. You should only need the lightest of pressure on the razor for it to shave close and clean. If a small amount of weight is needed then the edge is degraded, go back to the strop and possible a bit on the linen. Remember...keep the strop bar tight when using the linen or a pasted strop.
Cr02 comes in when the linen is failing to get the edge to standard. Don't use linen post Cr02 or you will loose the benefit, only use leather post Cr02. Or you can forget the Cr02 and just give the razor half a dozen on the Lithide ( which I rate at 8k btw )

[Seraphim]

OK, more microscope pics:

First shot is my Fernando Esser right off the 1 micron diamond lapping film.

The second shot is the same razor after chrome ox balsa stropping (10-15 laps on a 8" paddle), latigo stropping, and shaving with it twice.

The blade looks a bit dirty, as I apparently didn't get off all the oil before taking the pics. Ah well, I suppose that's the "real world" edge you'd be using anyhow!

I didn't really feel a difference between my first shave and the second one.

[Johnny J]

It looks like the chrome ox on the paddle is making the edge coarser, not finer (!)

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe abrasive pastes became popular because most people only owned one not-terribly-fine barber hone, and pastes were the only way to get a really fine grit. Of the 6 different barber hones I own, only the Lithide could truly be called a finishing hone. All the rest would need SOME extra step before you could shave with them.

Is that plausible? I hope so, b/c I just pulled that theory out of my ass

[Seraphim]

I think mu chrome ox may be contaminated or something? I am using the big wax bar stuff.

Anyhow, refreshed that edge with 3um, 1um, 0.5um, and 0.1um().

Bevel sure is shiny, but the very edge looks a bit uneven. We'll see how it shaves...

[gssixgun]

Here is a little clarification on what linen and leather strops actually do, thanks to Seraphim finding the old article, that I had been looking for to explain about the micro-rust and roughness......

I'll link that thread here for you, some interesting info there

What does stropping do? What is the leathers grit?

[Howard]

You can either strop on leather or on your face. If you use your face, the first shave will be a bit rough. I like to use the strop first. I use natural leather as CrO degrades my edges off of the coticules.

[Howard]

Insure the package. Even if you just insure it for $50, it puts the package into a whole other level of importance to the post office. It sounds like your carrier is having some kind of a problem. It happens especially so in the summer when the regular carriers are on vacation and there are subs.