Finally did the parlor trick

JimmyHAD · 08-27-2008, 03:10 PM

I have never been able to achieve the HHT with any kind of consistency. I didn't worry about it that much because I had seen members refer to it as a 'parlor trick' and I am getting good shaves with the level of sharpness I am achieving. Still I have seen the Topher do it with a Goldedge that he honed for me and I was somewhat frustrated that I could not get to that level.

Then I read this thread and re-read this one. I had recently gotten an old Genco Fluid Steel with no bevel. I worked on it with a Shapton Pro 1000 to set a bevel and then went to a Shapton Pro 2000. I decided to go with a natural coticule and did about 20 laps on the blue side and another 20 on the yellow. I learned from Randy to do the TNT and the TPT while setting the bevel. As soon as the razor passes the TNT not to use that any more but continue the TPT as you go up in grit and start trying the HHT. Up until now I could get a razor to pop hairs and to shave but I could only get the HHT on limited areas of the edge if I could get it at all. I made popping hairs off of my forearm my benchmark and assumed that my hair is too fine to use the HHT.

Well last night I took the Genco from the natural which happens to be a great cutter to a kosher coticule that is a great polisher. Tried the HHT and as usual the blade was sharp enough to cut the hair in a couple of spots but not over the full length. I then followed mparker's lead and stropped on linen for 50 laps followed by another 50 on leather. When I was done stropping I grabbed a hair out of a brush and successfully completed the HHT all along the length of the blade.

Tonight I will see if the shave is significantly better then the level of sharpness I normally achieve.

IsaacRN · 08-27-2008, 05:25 PM

Congrats....

I can pass HHT every single time after leather. There are many others that can pass right off the stones. That one still perplexes me. I must stress and as you know...HHT doesnt mean a thing if your not passing the shave test. I just honed up a Wacker frameback that by all means looked like it would wipe hairs off my face, until I actually shaved (or should i say butchered) my face with it

Kees · 08-27-2008, 05:38 PM

HHT with human never worked for me but the brush hair test works all the time for me.

JimmyHAD · 08-27-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

HHT with human never worked for me but the brush hair test works all the time for me.

Perhaps I wasn't specific, I sometimes use the hair out of an old shaving brush but in this instance I snaked a hair out of a hair brush that I use on my own head.

In the past I thought that my hair was too fine to do the HHT but apparently I needed to get my razor sharper.

Lt.Arclight · 08-27-2008, 09:07 PM

I just switched over to an 8000 Shapton glass hone. I find it much easier to get HHT sharp than using the Norton 8000. That is after stropping ALOT though. I'm currently waiting on a 12000 grit Shapton Glass hone to finish my polishing. The HHT is cool for sure-but if I can get the blade to pop hairs off my forearm it is shave ready-at least IMO.YMMV though...

PuFFaH · 08-27-2008, 10:01 PM

I am sure of not being alone in getting HHT off every hone. If I could only get hairs to pop after I stropped, I would regard this as an edge needing more time on the hone.
linen and leather will bring an edge up to speed, but surely it must be realised that you are so close to getting it right off the hone but hitting the bar on the last hurdle. You may only be a lap or so off getting it I would guess. I'm sure your next post will be " HHt off the hone at last".

PuFF

Bart · 08-27-2008, 10:15 PM

I always aim for a positive HHT after my DMT 1200. It takes ultralight strokes to get there. I keep a little box, filled with freshly washed, thick hair that I "harvested" from my youngest daughter's head. (She's pride to be part of my honing activities, something she monitors with utmost attention

). My own hair works too, and so does my wife's and all other hairs I tried, but my daughter's is the easiest to cut.
I have further standardized my version of the HHT, by pinching the hair between my moistened thumb and index finger and dragging it through. Then I let it settle for a few seconds, so that the hair is well hydrated. It makes a difference.

After the DMT I sometimes, but not always loose the HHT ability while honing on the Belgian blue and the coticule. After stropping a freshly honed razor on leather, my razors must pass the HHT, or I don't even bother with trying to shave anymore. (never had a decent close shave after ignoring that rule). At this stage, a truly sharp razor will fell a hair the split second it touches the edge. At the DMT 1200 stage, I accept that I need to drag the hair accross the razor for 1mm or so, before it catches the edge.

Best regards,
Bart.

JimmyHAD · 08-27-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuFFaH

I am sure of not being alone in getting HHT off every hone. If I could only get hairs to pop after I stropped, I would regard this as an edge needing more time on the hone.
linen and leather will bring an edge up to speed, but surely it must be realised that you are so close to getting it right off the hone but hitting the bar on the last hurdle. You may only be a lap or so off getting it I would guess. I'm sure your next post will be " HHt off the hone at last".

PuFF

You may be right. I guess I am afraid of over honing. Also going by Lynn's DVD where he says fewer strokes are better then more strokes. I am still feeling my way with honing and getting to know what I am doing. I will give getting the HHT off of the hone a shot and one day I will get there. Thanks for the encouragement.

JimmyHAD · 08-27-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart

I always aim for a positive HHT after my DMT 1200. It takes ultralight strokes to get there. I keep a little box, filled with freshly washed, thick hair that I "harvested" from my youngest daughter's head. (She's pride to be part of my honing activities, something she monitors with utmost attention

). My own hair works too, and so does my wife's and all other hairs I tried, but my daughter's is the easiest to cut.
I have further standardized my version of the HHT, by pinching the hair between my moistened thumb and index finger and dragging it through. Then I let it settle for a few seconds, so that the hair is well hydrated. It makes a difference.

After the DMT I sometimes, but not always loose the HHT ability while honing on the Belgian blue and the coticule. After stropping a freshly honed razor on leather, my razors must pass the HHT, or I don't even bother with trying to shave anymore. (never had a decent close shave after ignoring that rule). At this stage, a truly sharp razor will fell a hair the split second it touches the edge. At the DMT 1200 stage, I accept that I need to drag the hair accross the razor for 1mm or so, before it catches the edge.

Best regards,
Bart.

Hey Bart, thanks for the tip on hydrating the hair. I will try that on one I am honing up tonight.

JimmyHAD · 08-28-2008, 05:05 PM

Honed up another Solingen last night. An ebay special complete with a good sized nick and micro chipping. Got rid of that on the 1000 and then to a 2K Shapton pro. Followed with a Dalmore Blue and a Tam 'O Shanter. Finished on a blue/gray Escher. Tried to get the HHT with that and failed so I went back to the 50 linen and 50 leather and HHTed my ultra fine hair all along the blade. So I've got the hang of it with the stropping but still have a ways to go to get it with the hones.

Nice shave BTW.

backpackerx · 08-28-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

Tonight I will see if the shave is significantly better then the level of sharpness I normally achieve.

So, how was the shave?

JimmyHAD · 08-28-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backpackerx

So, how was the shave?

The shave was just fine.

backpackerx · 08-28-2008, 07:20 PM

Noticably better than before you could pass HHT? I'm just trying to understand when a razor can shave well but not HHT and vice versa and how important the HHT sharp is. I know many say it isn't that important but many also say if it won't pass HHT they usually don't get a good shave out of it.

JimmyHAD · 08-28-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backpackerx

Noticably better than before you could pass HHT? I'm just trying to understand when a razor can shave well but not HHT and vice versa and how important the HHT sharp is. I know many say it isn't that important but many also say if it won't pass HHT they usually don't get a good shave out of it.

Well I find that if I can pop hairs off of my arm (not touching the skin but above) that I get a good shave. I use a light touch when I shave so I don't get irritation or burn. The edge is sharper so I would say it is a better shave but I got good shaves before I could achieve that level of sharpness. I too have read forum member's posts saying they won't shave with a razor that won't pass the HHT. Now that I can get there I guess I will say the same thing.

gssixgun · 08-28-2008, 10:43 PM

Some rambling thoughts about the HHT...

Yes I can get a hair to pop off of even a 1k stone, but I don't consider that anything great, as I said in previous threads you can get a false positive from a ragged edge..

A wire edge can pop HHT..... I ain't shaving it though...

Once your HHT becomes a consistent thing after final stropping, you can take it one step further by "reading" how the hair pops...

My hair is thicker (easier than hers) than the wifes baby fine hair, I use hers and use no drag across the edge.... I dont wet, or even straighten the hair I just pop it....

If you have to manipulate the hair to get it to pop, that's not really HHT...

Start at the heel and work your way along the edge to the toe, or the other way around, the hair should pop everywhere, I do a minimum of 5 "tests"....

And last but not least, the HHT only means the blade is sharp, it does not mean it will shave smooth, but I would venture to say it is a good indicator of one that is really, really, close......

Just my rambling thoughts here

And way to go !!!!! JimmyH

JimmyHAD · 08-29-2008, 12:16 AM

Thanks Glen, I am working on a Puma High Class model # 91 right now. I am trying to get it to do the HHT off of the hone. I have been at it for many passes on a Shapton Pro 30K and it will pass HHT near the heel but not on the rest of the blade ..... yet. I will keep at it until I get it.

Lt.Arclight · 08-29-2008, 02:00 PM

I was also afraid of over-honing. I am waiting for a 12000 grit shapton waterstone and thought it might be the next step up from my normal(now) 4000 Norton and 8000 Shapton Glass waterstone. That said, I obtained a 16000 Shapton Glass waterstone. Of course having NO patience at all, as soon as I had that 16000 stone in my hand, I had to give it a try.

Using a similar pyramid technique, I took 3 finished razors out of my rotation and tried the 8000 and 16000 Shapton Waterstones. WOW. They are very aggressive, I guess that's the word, you can feel the 16000 cutting-its very satisfying actually. I had NEVER been able to get the HHT EVERYTIME and frankly, I dismissed it as a parlor trick, since I have been getting very good shaving results. With this progression of honing I immediately got amazing edges on 3 different blades-that had been very good shavers-BUT COULDN'T pass the HHT.

Now, I wonder if I should even consider going 8000 to 12000 to 16000. I think I'll leave well enough alone,because the edges seem so much more refined. AND they can do the HHT

JimmyHAD · 08-29-2008, 02:43 PM

I worked and worked on the Puma until my elbow feels on the verge of tendinitis. Every now and then I would pull a hair out of my hairbrush and fail the HHT. Eventually I gave up and went to the strop. I did the 50 linen/50 leather and finally was passing the HHT from heel to toe with the Puma. I don't have the Shapton glass stones so I don;t know whether that would have made a difference. I probably went to the 30k pro too soon. Well maybe on the next one. I will see how the Puma shaves later today.