[Johnny J]

Recently Glen aka gssixgun made me a very generous offer; to hone one of my razors so I would have a benchmark to measure against. Needless to say, I took him up on it.

When I got my razor back, it was sharper than I thought physically possible. I cut the sh1te out of myself trying to use it. I had no idea how to shave with something that sharp.

By the 3rd shave, the edge had calmed down enough (or I got used to it enough) that the bloodbath ended. But seeing what a really sharp edge is supposed to be like opened my eyes, & revealed many problems with my honing technique. Since I suspect these mistakes are common, I'll list them in order of importance.

-- Not doing enough work on the 1K to establish a good bevel. You should be able to shave with it (albeit not comfortably) right off the 1K. If it won't shave hair, it doesn't have a bevel yet. Make sure you test it at several points along the edge.

-- Not doing enough work with each hone to erase the scratch pattern of the previous hone. Use a jeweler's loupe. Look at what you are doing. It may only take 5 laps to freshen an edge, but it might take 50 to remove a scratch pattern. The work will decrease as you progress through the grits because the scratch patterns you're trying to erase are getting finer & finer.

-- My finest hone was not all that fine. A Lithide barber hone feels smooth to the touch, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 8K grit. Rectified by buying a Chinese 12K at my local Woodcraft.

-- Thanks to Puffah, I discovered that barber hones are particularly prone to raising a burr. Finish with 2-4 back-strokes, toe leading, then 3-5 forward strokes, to remove the burr.

-- Using pastes to mask problems with my honing.

My edges are starting to get much better. If any of you have never had a professionally honed edge to compare your own work against, I highly recomend getting one.

[joke1176]

I have been toying around with the idea of doing this myself, just to see...

[netsurfr]

Sorry you cut yourself rather badly with a really sharp razor.
However, it sounds like you are really learning a lot!!!
Congratulations on the progress!

[Johnny J]

Originally Posted by netsurfr

Sorry you cut yourself rather badly with a really sharp razor.

It's OK. Bones knit, wounds heal, & chicks dig scars

[Jimbo]

Johnny J that is great news! And very thoughtful (and useful) of you to list out those honing issues as you did. Thanks!

Don't want to off-topic this too much, but have you tried that razor on your head yet? Has it made a difference to your head shaves?

James.

[gssixgun]

Well I am glad to hear it was sharp I am glad you got it all dialed in now....
I hope the learning cuts were not too painful

[Johnny J]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Johnny J that is great news! And very thoughtful (and useful) of you to list out those honing issues as you did. Thanks!

You betcha. I get so much from this place, I can only hope to contribute 10% of what I receive.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Don't want to off-topic this too much, but have you tried that razor on your head yet? Has it made a difference to your head shaves?

I have not tried that razor on my head because I always seem to roll the edge when I shave my head. I want to accumulate good statistics on the longevity of Glen's reputedly durable edges against my steel-eating beard from the depths of hell. I did, however, do what I should have done (but didn't) when I was learning to shave my face: I picked up a DE to do most of my head, while I slowly expand my comfort zone with the straight. I started out doing just the top with the straight. By now I can do the top & sides with a straight, but I can't do the back at all. Hopefully I'll eventually be able to do the whole thing with the straight.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I hope the learning cuts were not too painful

Actually the freaky thing is I didn't feel them at all.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Johnny J

-- Thanks to Puffah, I discovered that barber hones are particularly prone to raising a burr. Finish with 2-4 back-strokes, toe leading, then 3-5 forward strokes, to remove the burr.

That's exactly how a 75 year old barber in my town showed me how to use a barber hone (back hone a few strokes toward the end then a few forward).

Chris L

[xChris]

Originally Posted by Johnny J

-- Not doing enough work on the 1K to establish a good bevel. You should be able to shave with it (albeit not comfortably) right off the 1K. If it won't shave hair, it doesn't have a bevel yet. Make sure you test it at several points along the edge.

-- Not doing enough work with each hone to erase the scratch pattern of the previous hone. Use a jeweler's loupe. Look at what you are doing. It may only take 5 laps to freshen an edge, but it might take 50 to remove a scratch pattern. The work will decrease as you progress through the grits because the scratch patterns you're trying to erase are getting finer & finer.

I concur with these remarks, as I've run into these problems myself.

I had a "moment of clarity" a little bit back looking at edges through a microscope. After interpreting the edges of some honemeisters' works, I realized that I wasn't doing enough canvas/linen and leather stropping after restoring a razor's edge with honing. Now, I'm getting much better and smoother shave for the first and subsequent shaves.

[Howard]

A member sent me three of the most beautiful razors a few weeks ago and I honed them for him. They were a Mastro Levi, a Bill Ellis, and a Josh Earl. The razors were pretty sharp out of the gate but had a few other problems. The bevels were not even, one had a burr on part of the edge, and another had too narrow a bevel. Once I set the bevels and got rid of the other problems, I finished them on a progression of Shaptons, 16k and 30k. They were unbelievably sharp at the end and the other issues had been resolved. The owner said they had been honed by other people but didn't mention who had worked on them. What I learned was that although all the razors were prime examples of the art, in the end it's the edge which shaves your face and if the edge has issues other than just not being sharp enough, no amount of honing will help until the bevel is right and any other issues are resolved.

[Johnny J]

I've now been through one complete cycle with the razor that Glen honed, so I'm ready to post a few conclusions:

-- Glen's edges start out much sharper than mine, and remain shaveworthy nearly 3x as long.

-- However, I really do have a barbed wire beard, it's not a figment of my imagination. Even Glen's edge only gets me 8 3-pass shaves.

-- Linen is a nice burnisher, more effective than leather, but by the time I need it, all it's doing is delaying the inevitable touch-up by 1 or 2 shaves, so I can easily live without it. Men with less destructive beards probably get more mileage out of it.

-- The Chinese 12K is a really nice finisher, and 50 laps are sufficient to do a very good touch-up. The Swatys & the Lithide hone are pretty good finishers, but the Chinese 12K is better.

-- All in all, this experiment was a success. Having a meister's edge to use as a benchmark helped fix several problems with my own honing.



My shave log is included below for completeness.



Shave 1: no stropping (Glen did that already)
Blade is sharper than any object on this planet has a right to be. Hairs jump in half of their own free will as soon as they touch the edge. The edge is very "sticky" & "grabby" though--you get cut if you touch it to your face the wrong way. IDK how to use something this sharp. Shave is mediocre, mainly b/c I'm afraid of the razor.

Shave 2: 50xleather
The edge has calmed down a bit & is more like what I'm used to. Still nicking myself but shave is better.

Shave3, 2 days growth: 50xleather
Now the edge is how I like it. BBS both ways.

Shave 4: 50xleather
I'm still cutting the crap out of myself, but getting a good shave.

Shave 5: 50xleather
The blade has now dulled to the point where my freshly-honed edges were recently. I got a great shave, BBS both ways, but my long strokes don't work anymore; the blade gets stuck, like an axe sticking in a tree. I have to use short, choppy strokes. I predict I'll get 3 or 4 more shaves before I have to hit the linen.

Shave 6: 50x leather
Blade has definitely peaked. This shave is perfect.

Shave 7: 50x leather
Still perfect.

Shave 8: 50x leather
The very beginning of deterioration has begun. It's still a very good shave but I can feel a little stubble ATG.

Shave 9: 20x linen + 50x leather
The linen restored it to the point where I can do long strokes again. This is a very nice shave, but not perfect ATG. So the linen did not completely reverse the damage.

Shave 10: 20x linen + 50x leather
I still have my long strokes but I now have a mediocre shave with pulling & razor burn. I can feel that the blade is dull with my thumb.

Shave 11: 50x Chinese12K + 50x leather
Now we're back to the shave of kings

[Ben325e]

JohnnyJ,

Have you tried any tyes of pastes? I know that the finish coming straight off a 12K chinese is pretty dang good, but you can easily follow that with chromium oxide for a much better shave. I have granite and glass surfaces that I stick newspaper (or whatever kind of paper, really) on and then I load it up with a chromium oxide bar. A little dab 'll do ya. That gives a much finer finish. Or a chromium oxide hanging strop does fantastically, as well. It's something that you could use a little more often than the chinese 12k and keep your razor "peaking" longer.

All that aside - have you consider using the linen side of your strop sooner in your cycle? It would seem that if you can't do long strokes on shave 5, then why wait 'till shave 9 before you actually use the linen?

Ben

[Johnny J]

Hey Ben,

Trying the linen sooner indeed seems like a reasonable thing to do. Regarding Cr02; I used to use it & I like that smooth, silky edge very much. It does indeed provide a very nice shave. The problem I ran into with it is that the frequent touch-ups needed due to my beard from hell would eventually result in a badly rounded bevel, requiring me to reset the bevel about once per month. I suppose this could be solved if I were to hit the hone for a few laps before the Cr02, but I would have to make sure to undo all the rounding from the previous polishing. It seemed easier to stop using the Cr02 & eliminate the rounding altogether. Guys with less destructive beards don't seem to have this problem.

Addendum: Note to Jimbo:

I just used this razor to shave my head. Now that I have collected my data, this blade is going to be my dedicated head-shaver. having a 12K edge rather than an 8K edge seems to make a big difference for head shaving, since the blade encounters less resistance, which removes the temptation to add pressure. I am still using the DE for the back of my head, but I have progressed to using the str8 for the top & sides.

I think the other key to learning how to head-shave is to do most of it with a safety razor so you can start with the easy bits & slowly expand. (That's pretty good advice for face shaving, too).

[Ben325e]

I'm assuming that the problem with the rounding of the bevel is coming from a hanging strop? Have you had the same result with a paddle strop? Just curious....

[Johnny J]

Hey Ben,

The Cr02 is on a loom strop set as tight as it will go, so there isn't much flex, but any soft & compliant surface is going to round the bevel to some extent. You can see this quite clearly in Seraphim's microscope photos, where he put a couple sheets of paper underneath his 1um lapping film.

What I would notice with the loom strop is that each time I touched it up with the CrO2, the touch-up would be less effective, and would last for a shorter period of time (because the bevel was becoming more & more rounded). At this time, I was touching up on the CrO2 exclusively--not using any hone at all.

[Ditch Doc]

I use linen and leather every time I shave. 10 laps on Cro Ox every 10th shave. My razors seem to stay very sharp with this method. My beard would be considered thick and tough.