How is a wedge supposed to feel?

Johnny J · 09-12-2008, 12:53 PM

I recently bought an absolutely massive 15/16 W&B meat chopper wedge. An intimidating blade in every way; I've always wanted one. I guess it's not a true wedge since it only makes contact at the edge & the spine, but it's only very slightly ground.

As expected, sharpening it is a bugger. 100 laps on 1K sandpaper hardly seems to even make a dent. (Interestingly, it gave me a pretty good shave when I first got it, even though it was not sharp & I could see a small depression in the edge).

Anyway, my question is: when I'm done, is a heavy wedge supposed to feel just as thin at the cutting edge as my full hollows? Right now, on the TPT, it kind of feels like an axe, whereas the full hollows feel almost as thin & grabby as DE blades.

TIA,
-Johnny

English · 09-12-2008, 02:05 PM

Well, let me tell you, wedges are the most difficult things to hone satisfactorily. 100 laps on 1000 grit tells me you are doing something wrong.

The specific answer to your question is that no they don't feel the same. But it should feel as sharp.
The blade is rigid and the skin wraps to it rather than a full hollow were the blade flexes a bit. It will however cut the beard easier because of the weight behind the blade. You will either love them or hate them. I found that soap would often catch on the back of the blade and stop the smooth flow of the razor cut. But the big wedges are very popular, especially it seems with those men who shave every three days or so rather than every morning.

As to the honing, you have two ways to go. Either with or without taping the spine.

If you tape the spine, and start from scratch with a 1000 grit hone, you will develop a new V edge very quickly. You hone this V all the way up to the strop as you would a full hollow blade. The method works and works well. It has the advantage of keeping the blade looking unworn because there is no wear on the spines honining edge, because it is protected by the tape. I have found that two layers of electrical tape works best.ie, layer one over another. Try to make sure the tape is symetrical. Also be careful especially on the 1000 grit that you are not wearing the tape thin or you will actually be putting a U and not a V as your new edge. If you suspect wear, just change the tape and carry on. Remember the fulcrum for honing becomes the edge of the tape.

If you don't tape the spine, be careful that you don't over hone on the 1000 grit. You need to feel for when you have developed that grippy edge and stop. Then move onto the higher grit hones, always making sure you don't loose the gritty edge as the edge gets polished.

When you come off the final hone, I would strongly advise that you give the edge a final polish using a flat bed leather hone that has been lightly coated with chromium oxide. 5 to 10 return passes will do the job. Chromium oxide improves the edge on the wedge better than anything.

As for stropping, you will get the best results by laying your strop flat on a table edge and stropping the blade on the flat. Because the blade is so heavy and totally inflexible, unless you hold a hanging strop very taught, you will likely roll the edge dull rather than achieve the smooth edge you desire.

The leather chromium oxide strop is great for touch ups as well. The wedge does not hold an edge as long as a full hollow and so revisits for touch up may well need to be between 7 and 14 shaves.

Anyway good luck. You will not be the first to find honing a wedge quite a challenge.

I've done it, but I must admit, I struggle to get good results consistantly.

hoglahoo · 09-12-2008, 02:11 PM

A sharp wedge will feel just as sharp and light and skin splitting with the tpt as a hollow, in my experience

gssixgun · 09-12-2008, 04:05 PM

Honing Wedge = WORK !!!!!!
There is just more metal to remove....
Even taping the spine there is still more metal to remove....
When you get them right though, it should feel just the same on all the tests....
You just reminded me I have two W&B's to get honed today

holli4pirating · 09-12-2008, 04:45 PM

While my sharp wedges feel just as sharp and take hair off my face just as easily as full hollows, wedges also have a more forgiving feel. This may be because they don't flex, or maybe because they have more weight behind them. This forgiving feeling might give you a sense that you're taking hair off your face with a plow rather than a weedwacker...

When it comes to testing, I do TNT, arm hair test, and shave tests. A sharp wedge feel the same as a full hollow on my nail, takes hairs off my arm as cleanly as a full hollow (though without the "pinging"), and leaves a shave just as smooth as a full hollow.

fotoguru · 09-12-2008, 04:58 PM

The 1k sandpaper doesn't cut nearly as well on the 100th lap as it does on the first - you will make better progress changing the sandpaper more frequently. I was recently honing a big wedge with some nicks in it - it took a fair amount of work at the 1k level to get those worked out. Good luck with it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny J

As expected, sharpening it is a bugger. 100 laps on 1K sandpaper hardly seems to even make a dent.

Seraphim · 09-12-2008, 05:02 PM

DMT1200 is your friend for establishing a bevel on a wedge!

holli4pirating · 09-12-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

DMT1200 is your friend for establishing a bevel on a wedge!

Or, if you prefer a friend who won't take all your money, you could look at the King waterstones offered at Woodcraft. I picked up a dual sided one (I don't remember or use the extra coarse side, but one side is 1K) for $19, or there is a version that is just 1K for a few dollars more.

I don't want to sound like I'm taking a shot at the DMT. I realize that it has it's advantages over the stone I went with. But personally, I didn't want to spend quite so much on a stone. That decision will go different ways for different folks, depending on how you weight each pro and con; I just wanted to point out an alternative.

hoglahoo · 09-12-2008, 06:23 PM

I wouldn't try lapping anything with a king waterstone though

too soft

holli4pirating · 09-12-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I wouldn't try lapping anything with a king waterstone though

too soft

Quite right. I even think that the coarse side of the combo stone I picked up might be too soft to hone a razor on. So clearly, the added use of a DMT as a lapping stone is one of it's "pros."

Seraphim · 09-12-2008, 06:34 PM

2x6 1200 dimond hone runs about $35 or so. Iuse it only for whipping EBay blades back into line, so I don't need the big 3x8 (~$60).

holli4pirating · 09-12-2008, 06:49 PM

Oh, I hadn't realized there was a smaller version. That is much more reasonable.

hoglahoo · 09-12-2008, 07:31 PM

Yeah Mr. Seraphim has tempted me as well...

Johnny J · 09-13-2008, 12:25 AM

OK, another 100 passes on 1.5K sandpaper did the trick. The edge does indeed feel as sticky as any of my hollows. Tomorrow we'll see how it shaves.

JMS · 09-13-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny J

OK, another 100 passes on 1.5K sandpaper did the trick. The edge does indeed feel as sticky as any of my hollows. Tomorrow we'll see how it shaves.

Do I understand that you plan on shaving off of 1500 grit sand paper?

Russel Baldridge · 09-13-2008, 03:57 AM

Wedges, how I love thee!

Seriously, I absolutely prefer heavy wedges over full hollows hands down. The shave is just as good, but there's a smoothness that doesn't always occur with full hollows. They are also very quiet, almost silent, while hollow ground blades tend to make a scraping sound as they cut the whiskers.

You'll find that more passes are necessary on all of the grits up through a progression, if you haven't already, but the end rresult is favorable in my opinion.

Johnny J · 09-13-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Do I understand that you plan on shaving off of 1500 grit sand paper?

***NO!*** I mean, if it won't shave hair, you ain't got a bevel yet. After 100x1K + 100x1.5K I had a nice grabby bevel that would cut standing hairs off my arm, so I proceeded with polishing: 50xC.S.hone + 50xGem + 30xSwaty + 50xChinese12K. I'm about to go shave with it now.

Johnny J · 09-13-2008, 03:34 PM

OK, I just shaved. The wedge indeed feels very forgiving. I like the way it plows through all obstacles. But the shave is not quite as smooth as what I can do with a hollow. Is this a characteristic of wedges, or am I not there yet with the edge?

holli4pirating · 09-13-2008, 03:57 PM

If it's not a smooth shave, you're not quite there. I actually find that my wedges glide more smoothly over my face than hollows, and the closeness of the shave with both types of blade is equally as smooth.

(Regardless of how you use the word smooth, the shave should be just as smooth)

Johnny J · 09-14-2008, 04:04 PM

OK, I took 'er back for another 100 laps on the C.S. hone, then 100 on the Swaty and 100 on the Chinese 12K. All I can say is...WOW. What an utterly phenomenal shaver. This was totally worth the work it took!

Addendum: my honing ability took a quantum leap after feeling Glen's edge & having it as a benchmark to compare my own work to. Thanks Glen!