[Colin Howkins]

Being a new bloke [Aussie slang for a male person] to this forum but an old bloke to using a razor - 42 years- I have found this forum to be informative and interesting in as much that I did not know that using a razor had such a group of aficanados.

What I find most interesting is how it appears that honing a razor has been turned almost into rocket science. I concede that I have been doing this sort of thing a long time and so it is almost 2nd nature to me, but I am intrigued by hones of 12000, 20000, etc etc, and I have no benchmark to say that a razor finished with a particular hone is going to shave any better than a razor finished with a different hone.

Over the years I have used Arkansas stones as they were about the only thing available, and whilst not being a complete Luddite they worked well and delivered the appropriate result, so I looked no further. To add to this I have a 'Razor Hone' that used to belong to my grandfather, I have no idea what it is, it is basically black with a sort of a brown swirl through it, I think it would date from the late 1800's or early 1900's and it is as hard as granite.

To get a final polish on this stone is a time consuming affair with lots of passes being taken to get a final polish.........and that is just the way it was done.All this has been done over the years using kerosene or diesel and the lubricating medium.

As I said, not being a complete Luddite I have recently purchased a Norton 4000/8000 stone. The really impressive thing about this stone is how quickly it removes stock yet giving a good result. On this stone, for me it is 5 passes each side on the 4000, 10 passes each side on the 8000, and there it is.

This takes all of a few minutes whereas previously it was a good half hour job.

Stropping - after each shave 10 passes on linen 20 passes on leather and good as gold. I would only use the hone about once every couple of months ot so.

I think a hollow ground razor is just about as close to the perfect single use tool a bloke could pick up. Because of the hollow grind you always get the angle right when honing - its a bit of a guess with a knife or chisel. It is difficult to envisage what other use you could put a razor to without damaging it for its intended purpose.

I can't help but think if you start getting into these superfine hones, you are really moving into the area of diminishing returns, in that you will spend a lot of time and money for a very small, and often undetectable increase in performance, and you may well be looking for somthing that is unachievable.

In thinking about it, when using ultra fine hones, I believe you would have to have some idea of the molecular make up of the blade you are sharpening. It may be you could be trying to sharpen somethng to a point where its molecular structure may not be able to support it

So thats my thoughts on honing.........Thanks for taking the time to read

[Kees]

Hi Colin,

Of course you're right honing needn't be rocket science. I have been and am still experimenting a lot with different hones to see which set-up works best for me. The reason is that I tend to get quite a bit of razor irritation and also for the fun of it. Shaving is a chore for many and fun for some, especially straight razor shavers.


It is part of human nature to be looking for ways of doing things faster, better and smarter. That's why mankind has and gorilla's haven't put an individual of their species on the moon. And that's probably why you decided to buy a Norton that you found is much faster than your old hones.

[riooso]

Welcome Colin,
I can not say for the rest but if I would stop at 8000 then I would not find the shave very enjoyable. You really ought to try using some pastes. Chromium Oxide, which is 0.50 micron, is going to take your shave to a new level. I have found using pastes very easy and quick and not time consuming at all. For example, I have 2 identical razors and once every three weeks I spend about 15 minutes sharpening with pastes. The resulting sharpness level is really quite astounding. I use a system with DMT8EE hone about every 4 months and then a 4 sided paddle for the touch up. On the paddle I have 3.0,1.0,0.5,0.25 diamond pastes. Going the Chromium Oxide route is extremely easy and cheap because you can use a piece of balsa glued to a piece of hard wood. Works very well.


Take Care,
Richard

[JimmyHAD]

Welcome to the forum Colin. Your use of Arkansas stones with diesel or kerosene proves there is more then one way to skin a cat. I trust you will be sticking with the Norton and water from here on out. I've been shaving for 45 years but only shaving with a straight razor for 6 months and honing for 5. I have a large variety of hones up to 30K and I am still in the process of learning. My motivation is the feeling of accomplishment in learning to hone my own.

Taking a micro chipped or worse ebay special and getting it to pass the hanging hair test and then getting a smooth close shave with it is fun. I once read a post on SRP where the member referred to the "drudgery of honing". I haven't gotten there yet and hope I never do. So for me this is an enjoyable pursuit and that is why this bloke experiments with the higher grits.

[Bart]

Collin,

Welcome to SRP!

Have you ever visited a guitar store? There's always at least one guy present, buying another guitar, trying the latest brand of strings (with a core of special aviation-grade titanium), discussing the sonorous qualities of a certain type of lacquer. You know the kind? They always play "Stairway to Heaven" while trying every possible guitar in combination with every possible amp present in that store. On the other end of the world, as far away from that store as possible, lives a guy that plays the **** out of an old beat up guitar that he picked up at a pawn shop. As long as both guys are having fun, I have no problem with either one of them. (I might respect the latter a bit more, though)

That said: I often wonder how guys like yourself (and indubitably many guys in the past) manage to shave with an edge that pulls at the whiskers and would irritate the hell out of my unweathered face.
I like to keep things minimal, but I guarantee you that there's a big difference in keenness and shaving comfort between the edge that you describe in your post and the edge that many "geeks" on this forum produce. I'm almost equally sure that you can compensate for that with superior shaving skills, "honed" with many years of experience.
I'm eager to learn from that experience.

Best regards,
Bart.

[heelerau]

Originally Posted by Colin Howkins

Being a new bloke [Aussie slang for a male person] to this forum but an old bloke to using a razor - 42 years- I have found this forum to be informative and interesting in as much that I did not know that using a razor had such a group of aficanados.

What I find most interesting is how it appears that honing a razor has been turned almost into rocket science. I concede that I have been doing this sort of thing a long time and so it is almost 2nd nature to me, but I am intrigued by hones of 12000, 20000, etc etc, and I have no benchmark to say that a razor finished with a particular hone is going to shave any better than a razor finished with a different hone.

Over the years I have used Arkansas stones as they were about the only thing available, and whilst not being a complete Luddite they worked well and delivered the appropriate result, so I looked no further. To add to this I have a 'Razor Hone' that used to belong to my grandfather, I have no idea what it is, it is basically black with a sort of a brown swirl through it, I think it would date from the late 1800's or early 1900's and it is as hard as granite.

To get a final polish on this stone is a time consuming affair with lots of passes being taken to get a final polish.........and that is just the way it was done.All this has been done over the years using kerosene or diesel and the lubricating medium.

As I said, not being a complete Luddite I have recently purchased a Norton 4000/8000 stone. The really impressive thing about this stone is how quickly it removes stock yet giving a good result. On this stone, for me it is 5 passes each side on the 4000, 10 passes each side on the 8000, and there it is.

This takes all of a few minutes whereas previously it was a good half hour job.

Stropping - after each shave 10 passes on linen 20 passes on leather and good as gold. I would only use the hone about once every couple of months ot so.

I think a hollow ground razor is just about as close to the perfect single use tool a bloke could pick up. Because of the hollow grind you always get the angle right when honing - its a bit of a guess with a knife or chisel. It is difficult to envisage what other use you could put a razor to without damaging it for its intended purpose.

I can't help but think if you start getting into these superfine hones, you are really moving into the area of diminishing returns, in that you will spend a lot of time and money for a very small, and often undetectable increase in performance, and you may well be looking for somthing that is unachievable.

In thinking about it, when using ultra fine hones, I believe you would have to have some idea of the molecular make up of the blade you are sharpening. It may be you could be trying to sharpen somethng to a point where its molecular structure may not be able to support it

So thats my thoughts on honing.........Thanks for taking the time to read

Colin, seems like kerosene is used for honing on both sides of the country. I use an old fine natural stone, my late father sharpened his tailing and muelsing shears with, also a fairly fine arkansas stone, and an old boss barber hone, Keen Edge strop I picked up from an antique shop ( all my razors are from antique shops as well, all Cadman } Just as a matter of interest do you use your strop wet or dry? I have tried both, with a lick of the brush and with out, and am not sure it makes much of a differnce.


Cheers

Gordon

[netsurfr]

Hi Colin -
I will just say welcome to SRP. I think you have received about all the advise you need for one thread. I will say that Cromium Oxide was one of my better discoveries as far as getting a comfortable shave.

[Colin Howkins]

Thanks to all who replied to my post. I find it all very informative. I tihnk the thing that got me started all those years ago, was that firstly I have a bit of a fascination with edged tools, and the commensurate satisfaction one gains by generating the edge to do the job irrespective of the tool, from pick to razor.

I also took some form of perverse delight in using a razor, as until, I found out about this forum, I was the only bloke I knew that used one!! So over the years I have had no benchmark.

A couple of the comments I found amusing, like not being able to shave with a razor to only 8000 grit. Now this 8000 grit is all new to me for the last 40 odd years I've used my old grandad's 'razor hone' and I absolutely no idea what 'grit' it is. The other comment was that I must have got used to using a less than very sharp razor, and that is quite possibly so, although I have purchased another razor recently, supposedly shave ready, and it does not feel that unlike what I already experience.

It is funny, that in reading this forum, and trying to cast my memory back to what it was like for me in the early days, it is difficult to remember - and no alzheimers has not yet set in, but there is no doubt your technique gets better as time goes by, so for those of you new to this just be patient and you will get the hang of it. I think I mentioned it in a previous post, the most difficult thing as you get older is that your skin loses elaticity and you have to be a little more particular in keeping your skin taut, but the good thing is it does not happen overnight - you get to adjust to it slowly

Once again thanks to all who made comment.........I do appreciate it

Regarss to all

[geoffreyt]

For razors I use a Norton 4/8K and I have a 12K Chinese stone. I don't want to spend a lot of time (or money) putting sharp on my razors but I want a sharp razor to use. I find the Chromium Oxide on a bench strop suits me real well and the Chromium Oxide is very inexpensive. It serves to "freshen" up the sharpness and extends the life of an edge before you have to pull out a stone.

[Jimbo]

Hi Colin,

I agree with you on the idea of honing not being rocket science, although to a new guy (or girl) the mechanics of it can be a bit challenging, particularly if there is no one physically available to show you how it's done.

In any event, I notice you are in Brisbane. So am I, and I am one of those guys that has spent inordinate amounts of money on finer hones. I'd love to be able to bring you over a couple of my finer finishing stones (Escher, Shapton 16K, Nakayama Asagi which I think is 30K +).

If you are interested in trying them out, send me a PM. If not, that's fine too.

James.

[thebigspendur]

I think there is a real galaxie of space between many here on this forum and those that have shaved with a straight in the past. In the old days guys just shaved and maintained their razors the best they could. Maybe they got great shaves and maybe not so great and maybe they weren't really getting what they thought they were getting. Maybe that's why Mr Gillette was so successful. To most of us here this has become a hobby and there is this continual quest to achieve the very best like the guy who tinkers with the vintage car trying to tweak the best performance out of the engine.

[Lt.Arclight]

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I think there is a real galaxie of space between many here on this forum and those that have shaved with a straight in the past. In the old days guys just shaved and maintained their razors the best they could. Maybe they got great shaves and maybe not so great and maybe they weren't really getting what they thought they were getting. Maybe that's why Mr Gillette was so successful. To most of us here this has become a hobby and there is this continual quest to achieve the very best like the guy who tinkers with the vintage car trying to tweak the best performance out of the engine.

That is so true. The beauty of this forum community is that we can take what is to many, a task. And create a hobby. To strive for the best is something that we all seem to do when we take up a hobby. It truly is hard to say-I am SATISFIED.

On honing, there are many paths to the same destination. Now with new technologies products like the Shapton glass hones and the diamond products have made getting that "perfect" edge easier IMO. Its not to say you can't so it with an Arkansas stone,belgium coticule or the Norton. The ability to get an edge that suits your face is the most important aspect of this somewhat elusive art.

That being said, I never would have believed how absolutely hooked I have gotten on SHAVING I truly look forward to the sensation of a scary sharp piece of steel touching my face. Go figure.

[Ditch Doc]

I'm just glad that I have found enjoyment in something that is so much a part of me. I shave everyday, and instead of it being something akin to washing myself, or folding my clothes, it has become something I look foward to. My wife loves make up, and if she gets an opportunity to really spend some time on it, she gets a nice mellow feeling. Well, now I understand.

[Philadelph]

Originally Posted by Colin Howkins

The other comment was that I must have got used to using a less than very sharp razor, and that is quite possibly so, although I have purchased another razor recently, supposedly shave ready, and it does not feel that unlike what I already experience.

Hey Colin, glad you found us! As to the comment you made above, I wouldn't put too much weight on that as a benchmark. It is agreed that many if not all of the non-custom razors available today, when bought new are NOT shave ready whether they say so or not. That is, they all have an edge, but that edge is honed to not nearly the degree that most here would hone their razors for a comfortable shave. If I were you, I'd take up Jimbo's offer! He is a good guy!

[zenshaver]

Thanks colin. You may have just saved me a purchase I really did not need.I may buy another one anyway though.By the way welcome.