Read this if you own a SHAPTON! - Page 2

Chris L · 09-23-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I am just thinking of this because I personally want a narrow 1k that doesn't need to soak like a Norton (did I mention that?). If nothing pans out I may have to try a DMT 4"x7/8" or 6"x2" in 1200 grit.

I'm so close to pulling the trigger on trying some of these lower grit inexpensive Japanese Natural stones. There's a 1000 grit about halfway down for about $33 that could be ripped in half. CLICK HERE and go to the Woodworking tab and then pick the stone option. There is a Bester brand 1K grit ceramic stone for $40 that is solid. I've never used the brand, but another potential option to rip it lengthwise.

Chris L

chief · 09-23-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I disagree here:

"Finally, it should be noted that the effects of the tempering or the heat strengthening process can be reversed by re-annealing (stress relieving) the glass. "

First time I come across that, and I've been working in the glass-industry for over 10 years.
But keep us posted, I'm interested in the outcome.

cassady · 09-23-2008, 07:48 PM

ChrisL,

I've heard good things about the 1k Bester in the knife sharpening world.

cass

Chris L · 09-23-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassady

ChrisL,

I've heard good things about the 1k Bester in the knife sharpening world.

cass

We may have an inexpensive narrow bevel setting stone possibility brewing here, guys. Thanks for the info, Cass.

Chris L

Russel Baldridge · 09-23-2008, 09:06 PM

I bet you could cut up a DMT easier than a shapton glass stone, a bandsaw would probably do it.

So-san has said good things about bester products and I'm inclined to take his word for it

.

Though, I can't really say that I need a thinner 1k hone. Any particular reason you guys are searching for one?

Bruno · 09-23-2008, 09:16 PM

If all else fails, you can always chamfer the edges to the extreme so that you end up with a 1" wide honing surface on a 3" wide glass plate.

Philadelph · 09-23-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Though, I can't really say that I need a thinner 1k hone. Any particular reason you guys are searching for one?

I prefer the feeling and even time on the stone that a narrow hone allows. I also prefer wider, thicker blades for the most part and set a lot of bevels. A narrow hone makes it much easier when you are talking lots of rolling X-patterns IMO. Also, if you use any sort of X pattern on a three inch hone and keep the blade flat, then the toe will always wear faster than the heel since it spends so much more time on the stone. I use some sort of X at least somewhere in honing most blades.

Those Bester's look like an option. They have a bunch of other stones that look good too. I'm going to do a lot of research here. Sorry this is getting a little

kevint · 09-23-2008, 09:29 PM

What if you started with a naniwa chosera @30mm thick you could make 5 or 6 10mm hones and give one to me for the great idea and sell the rest.

Chris L · 09-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Any particular reason you guys are searching for one?

I have never been able to master the illusive rolling hone stroke and would really need to witness this first hand. I have had better results with narrow hones hitting the entire length of the blade. It just occurred to me that I'll probably see Randy Tuttle this weekend at a knife show! Maybe my rolling hone stroke is not that far off after all.

Chris L

jwoods · 09-24-2008, 03:59 AM

ill call a friend that runs a multi million dollar cutting machine it will do all from frosting mirrors to 12 inch thick stainless at a good clip and see what he has to say about it

PonderingTurtle · 09-26-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

If all else fails, you can always chamfer the edges to the extreme so that you end up with a 1" wide honing surface on a 3" wide glass plate.

Or simply wear away most of the ceramic material down to the glass layer.

Philadelph · 09-26-2008, 04:24 PM

Ok, I think I'll give up now. Talked to Howard who said that Harrelson told him there are no plans for any narrower Shapton GS stones. He also thinks it would be impossible to remove the ceramic or break the glass and leave the ceramic intact. Anyway, without something to experiment on, I don't think I'll pursue it further. I'm looking pretty hard at the DMT 6" x 2" 1200 grit plates...

Thanks!

Chris L · 09-26-2008, 04:41 PM

I say buy one of those 1K Besters and rip it in half, Alex. You had a good idea going there. I like how narrow hones whip problem blades into submission.

Chris L

OLD_SCHOOL · 09-26-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I totally understand all that. But who says the ceramic needs to stay mounted on the glass? Who says that it will be glass the ceramic is remounted on? Also, tempered glass can be annealed and then cut. This is why it will be an experiment, but a measured one!

I'm not sure I follow this. What would be the point of buying this type of hone if you going to remove the glass? I'd say there is a reason as to why the ceramic is mounted to glass, and thus the same reason be why it needs to stay mounted to the glass.

I couldn't see Shapton making narrower hones because there is no demand, other than us tiny handful of razor users/honers.

Chris L · 09-26-2008, 05:24 PM

The Shapton ceramic stones are mounted to the glass substrate because the ceramic is less than 1cm in thickness. Even so, I don't think I'll wear out even my 1K in my lifetime.

Chris L

JimmyHAD · 09-26-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philadelph

Ok, I think I'll give up now. Talked to Howard who said that Harrelson told him there are no plans for any narrower Shapton GS stones. He also thinks it would be impossible to remove the ceramic or break the glass and leave the ceramic intact. Anyway, without something to experiment on, I don't think I'll pursue it further. I'm looking pretty hard at the DMT 6" x 2" 1200 grit plates...

Thanks!

Are you sure it is tempered glass and not plate? If it is tempered it will have little dimples along one edge where the glass is hung by clamps while it goes through the tempering process. My guess is it is plate, not tempered. I may be wrong. If it is plate a water saw such as tile setters use will cut the stone and probably the glass right along with it.

Chris L · 09-26-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

Are you sure it is tempered glass and not plate? If it is tempered it will have little dimples along one edge where the glass is hung by clamps while it goes through the tempering process. My guess is it is plate, not tempered. I may be wrong. If it is plate a water saw such as tile setters use will cut the stone and probably the glass right along with it.

At a boy, Jimmy. Keep our hope alive my friend!

Alex, don't give up the dream!

Chris L

kaptain_zero · 09-26-2008, 07:45 PM

If it really is a big concern to have such a narrow hone (lord knows I'd get rid of such razors, not enough time/patience for honing such things to keep them as a user), why not use an inexpensive hone? If it's about just the final polish work and you just HAVE TO HAVE a Shapton for that purpose, then why not simply put a bevel along one side of a regular hone. You'll still have most of the width for normal razors and could have a 1/2" or 3/4" wide bevel on the hone to deal with those razors than need a narrow honing surface... Nothing cut, nor broken, same hone does both jobs... I forget who, but someone used to do that with a Norton hone. Also, someone pefected the art of slightly tilting a DMT to work near the edge on such razors, imitating a narrow stone... I've tried it and it works fine.

Regards

Kaptain "There's more than one way to skin a cat" Zero

spazola · 09-26-2008, 10:44 PM

I think that you could glue a new piece of reinforcement “tile, marble” to the face of the hone then cut off the original tempered glass by cutting through the shapton. This would leave you with about an 1/8 inch of abrasive bonded to a new substrate. You would end up with about half as much abrasive, but then again you would also end up with two stones once you cut it in half.

Cut it on the horizontal plane not the vertical.

Charlie

JimmyHAD · 09-27-2008, 04:28 AM

FWIW, I bought my 15K Shapton Pro with 15mm thickness from a very experienced honemeister. He wanted to go with the 16K glasstone @ 5mm honing thinckness. He has since told me that although he likes the 16k glass it doesn't cut any faster then the 15k pro and he feels they are about equal in their performance. So...... get a pro in whatever grit size you desire and cut it without the hassle of dealing with the glass. More bang for the buck with the 15mm.