[Philadelph]

Ok, now that I got all Shapton owners' attention:

Here's the deal- I had a nice talk with Howard over @ the Perfect Edge. I basically asked if Shapton had any plans to make the glass stones in a narrower width. I first asked about the possibility of cutting a Shapton Pro, but he advised against even trying since the Pro isn't as good an instrument as the glass stones and the Pro's are being discontinued (all according to both Howard and Shapton). Then we got to talking about cutting the Shapton Glass stones and how no one has the balls... ahem... guts to do it because of what it might cost them... i.e. their hone. So here is what we want-

Howard is going to ask Harrelson about Shapton's plans to make a narrower Glass stone line but I am not too hopeful. In the meantime we want to try cutting them ourselves. ***So who among you has a damaged/dysfunctional/chipped/"borrowed"/much used stone? Or maybe you are just unhappy with them?*** I will pay for you to ship it so that we can experiment. Obviously if it works out, you get back the results. If not, then you get back a slightly more dysfunctional hone.

It will work out for everyone! If not in a positive light at least we will then all know not to try cutting your Shapton! Who here will benefit us all at SRP?

[JMS]

You know Alex, a better bet might be to ask anyone interested in this little experiment to donate say, ten dollars to buy a new hone to try it with!


Just a thought!

[Philadelph]

Originally Posted by JMS

You know Alex, a better bet might be to ask anyone interested in this little experiment to donate say, ten dollars to buy a new hone to try it with!


Just a thought!

Ok, as suggested by Mark, if you'd like to donate any funds to buy a Shapton to test cut in many different ways- PM me!!! It'll be one of the cheaper ones obviously.

[Bruno]

How much would the cheapest usable hone cost? Say 1000 grit?

If we all chip in 5 or 10$, we buy a hone for the experiment, and if it succeeds, the 2 hones are raffled among the participants.

[radix7508]

I have a set of Shaptons, i bet you could cut them with a stone cutting saw....

also, an idea i had but have not implemented yet to make a narrower stone is to take the Shapton diamond lapping plate and make a 45 degree flat bevel on one side of either a pro stone or glasstone, this would give a nice flat bevel but not too wide either, plus it would keep the stone mostly intact for those nicer blades that truly are flat...

[chief]

a Shapton is made out of tempered glass if my information is correct, and you can NOT cut it.
Regular glass is easy to cut, but they tempered the glass for safety and strength reasons. if you cut tempered glass, it will explode into small glassfragments (hence the name safetyglass).

[radix7508]

yikes, then Shapton would have to make them in narrower widths, somehow i can't see them doing that exclusiveley for the straight razor using community... (

[Philadelph]

More than one way to skin a cat. I have a bunch of ideas that don't necessarily involve "cutting".

[chief]

I fear that all your tricks will fail...waterjetting, lasering...

Tempered glass has a tension built up inside the glass, it is very strong on the surface (you can hit it with a hammer), but when you tap with the hamer on the corner of the glass, it will shatter.

So, I'm hoping your tricks work... but for the love of god wear gloves and goggles.

[Philadelph]

I totally understand all that. But who says the ceramic needs to stay mounted on the glass? Who says that it will be glass the ceramic is remounted on? Also, tempered glass can be annealed and then cut. This is why it will be an experiment, but a measured one!

[Chris L]

Maybe cutting with a laser? Can you score tempered glass and snap it?

It would be nice to have narrow shapton ceramic stones. It's a bummer that I feel I can't use them for screwed up blades that need a narrow hone. Just last night I started honing a new TI Super Gnome that surprise, needed a narrow hone (2nd Super Gnome that won't respond to a wide hone). I set a passable bevel on the 1&2k Shaptons and went for the edge of a Tam and very narrow Coticule with hundreds of passes on each. The edge is still not where I want it.

So.....narrow Shaptons? I'd like them. Even if only for coarse grits to finish on narrow natural stones.

Here's an alternate idea for you, Alex:

The 1K is about $43 + shipping. If you spring for the cost and your idea works and....you think you'd be fine with offering to sell ripped Shaptons, I think it would work in your favor. I could see myself buying a ripped 1K Shapton for let's say $40 shipped and I bet some others would as well.

Chris L

[Rosco]

I was considering calling Howard to see if he could get me a Shapton Pro and cut it to 1" for me. As apparently the pros are getting discontinued, and the glass stones can't be cut, I'd have to get a pro stone soon in order to have any chance of owning a narrow shapton.
I also don't hold out much hope of this project bearing fruit, as apparently once the outer layer of tempered glass is penetrated, the glass will shatter. That said, I would be willing to donate $10 to buy a suitable hone to experiment on, as you seem to have plenty of ideas. I just gave up when I heard it couldn't be done!
I REALLY hope this works.

Connor

[chief]

I have never seen a shapton IRL, but can you seperate the glass and the abrasive without ruining it?
If so, good! Then you might have a shot at it.

Originally Posted by Philadelph

Also, tempered glass can be annealed and then cut.

No... it's already annealed after the heating process to harden it, it doesn't work the other way.

Good luck.

[Lt.Arclight]

If you try to score tempered glass it will explode into little pieces. Save your money.

[kevint]

I could sell a 5mm+ thick 1000pro, you could slice it a adhere to the substrate of choice. Or better yet will trade for 1000sglass or 1000 sigma

[cassady]

This is perhaps a silly question -- but I have no experience with warped blades. Why not use a ceramic sharpening rod, for freshening knives? I have one that's rated around 10k, but you can get them at different grits.


cass

[Bruce]

Personally, I want a wider Shapton. Could I glue a couple together?





I guess some of us are just never satisfied with what we think is merely minimal.

[Philadelph]

Originally Posted by chief

No... it's already annealed after the heating process to harden it, it doesn't work the other way.

I disagree here:

"Finally, it should be noted that the effects of the tempering or the heat strengthening process can be reversed by re-annealing (stress relieving) the glass. "


Anyway, I just hope Howard says that Harrelson said that Shapton will be making them narrower! Before I try anything though, I'd call Shapton and ask for details about the specific glass used and how the ceramic is held to it in hopes of finding how to un-do it.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by cassady

This is perhaps a silly question -- but I have no experience with warped blades. Why not use a ceramic sharpening rod, for freshening knives? I have one that's rated around 10k, but you can get them at different grits.


cass

I have tried something similar in the past in an attempt to force some razors so warped they may as well have been pigtails into submission (Ok, only a slight exaggeration). I used PSA honing film in various grits adhered to wood dowels. It solves the problem of honing the entire blade from heel to toe beautifully since only one line is making contact with the bevels and spine (the narrowest hone in the world). However, it seemed to me that Randy Tuttle's theory on the process held true: For ultra thin edges like full and extra hollow razors, the force applied to the edge is magnified. I could not hone a razor to shaving sharp that way.

It would be cool to see someone make it work.

Chris L

[Philadelph]

I am just thinking of this because I personally want a narrow 1k that doesn't need to soak like a Norton (did I mention that?). If nothing pans out I may have to try a DMT 4"x7/8" or 6"x2" in 1200 grit.