[English]

Do you know, we polish the edes so fine nowdays with a 50,000 grit paste that maybe, just maybe, the sticky edge........ whiuch is so desirable........... can be reached with a "one pass" on any 10 to 15K hone ..... maybe.

Or maybe the carrot chopping hone wrapped in gold, is the answer to our prayers.

I'll let someone else buy one. Forgive me, but I'm fed up with hype. I'll wait for the numbered limited edition wrapped in platinum.

No disrespect, Chris.

[JimmyHAD]

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I don't really have HAD at all and don't plan on trying any stone this expensive unless it hones the razor for me.

Alex, buy the stone for me and I'll hone all your razors for you .......

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by English

Do you know, we polish the edes so fine nowdays with a 50,000 grit paste that maybe, just maybe, the sticky edge........ whiuch is so desirable........... can be reached with a "one pass" on any 10 to 15K hone ..... maybe.

Or maybe the carrot chopping hone wrapped in gold, is the answer to our prayers.

I'll let someone else buy one. Forgive me, but I'm fed up with hype. I'll wait for the numbered limited edition wrapped in
No disrespect, Chris.

None taken. I understand your perspective and share it to a degree. I and others that like to try many different stones and hones after being at this awhile also know that can be possible to maintain a shaving edge using a $10 barber hone, newspaper, chrome ox, etc. IMO it's indisputable that a single coticule stone could provide a person with all the stone they'd need to shave well. However....

I don't believe there's ONE STONE of any grit range that would lay all other stones to waste with an incomparable and marked difference so amazing that a coticule, Thuringian, 16K Shapton, etc. would seem like crap in comparison. I'm not looking for said stone. Some like to taste fine wines. I like to try fine stones and enjoy comparing their subtleties for my own personal use.

Chris L

[JimmyHAD]

Originally Posted by Chris L

I don't believe there's ONE STONE of any grit range that would lay all other stones to waste with an incomparable and marked difference so amazing that a coticule, Thuringian, 16K Shapton, etc. would seem like crap in comparison. I'm not looking for said stone. Some like to taste fine wines. I like to try fine stones and enjoy comparing their subtleties for my own personal use.Chris L

Couldn't have put it better myself. The same is true of razors. One is enough but variety is the spice of life.

[thebigspendur]

keep in mind that sword making and finishing have very different requirements than honing a straight razor. A classic sword maker uses literally an arsenal of stones and other items to finish off a sword. Also there is a sizeable group of people who collect Japanese Finishing Stones in Japan and many go for thousands of dollars based on the patterns on the stones and their pedigree.

[Ben325e]

The particular reviewer who has lauded so much praise to the name of the Naniwa Chocera 10k is none other than Ken123, from knifeforums and foodie forums. The guys are one and the same. Both glowing reviews come from only one source. More sources of info would be best.

If you want to see a picture of Ken, look no further than the thread here about the recent california meet. DwarvenChef brought his friend Ken along, and that's the guy. Perhaps DwarvenChef could head over to Ken's and hone a few razors on the Naniwa Chocera and the shapton 16 k and give a comparison.

I'll hold off on my holy grail attributions until I see many more reviews claiming such. Until then, I'll hang on to my 300 bucks.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Perhaps DwarvenChef could head over to Ken's and hone a few razors on the Naniwa Chocera and the shapton 16 k and give a comparison.

Excellent idea, Ben. Can you get a hold of him and see if he can hone a few razors on the Chocera? We'd be waiting with baited breath for any opinions.

Chris L

[kevint]

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

This is accurate. The Nakayama hones are the most highly sought after hones in the world. Narutaki, Suita and so on don't even compare.

Maybe the Naniwa is the holy grail of synthetic stones

Let's remember that Nakayama, and Narutaki are mines. Suita is a stratum. Nakayama Suita is one possibility of a single mine-strata specific stone.

fwiw nihonto usually receive their finish polish with Narutaki stones

[kevint]

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Chocera and Japanese Natural Stones .... - Foodie Forums

There's a guy in there that mentions having the Chocera hones, but not the 10k. Some of the other guys talk about other people's experiences and none seem to find it outstandingly better than the alternatives.

Then again, a 10k hone is really unlikely to be the holy grail.

Alex Gilmore's collection of natural finishing stones is extremely impressive and his experience is that the good Nakayama stones can be in the 40k to 45k range: Japanese stone grit levels: Suita, Narutaki, Nakayama

Thanks for mentioning Alex's site again. While many of his stones are beyond the budget of the casually curious shaver one could always drop him a note asking if he has any x-x for yyy $

[OLD_SCHOOL]

Originally Posted by kevint

Let's remember that Nakayama, and Narutaki are mines. Suita is a stratum. Nakayama Suita is one possibility of a single mine-strata specific stone.

fwiw nihonto usually receive their finish polish with Narutaki stones

Actually I made a slight error in that post because Narutaki hones are mined from the Nakayama quarry. But none the less, Narutaki hones do not get as high in grit as the Nakayama hones with the Maruichi label.

We're not talking about the holy grail of sword finishing hones, but razor finishing hones.

[kevint]

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Actually I made a slight error in that post because Narutaki hones are mined from the Nakayama quarry. But none the less, Narutaki hones do not get as high in grit as the Nakayama hones with the Maruichi label.

We're not talking about the holy grail of sword finishing hones, but razor finishing hones.

regardless of what you are discussing Narutaki is a mine separate from Nakayama, therefore narutaki are not mined from nakayama. both mines dug into the same mountain on the same side into the same geologic structure so they can have very very similar products

[OLD_SCHOOL]

Originally Posted by kevint

regardless of what you are discussing Narutaki is a mine separate from Nakayama, therefore narutaki are not mined from nakayama.

I highly recommend you do some research then, because Narutaki hones are from the Nakayama quarry.
There is plenty of information available on this site, there's a thread by Jimbo which actually has a stamped Narutaki hone. Then there is the detailed thread I put together, which mainly covers hones from the Nakayama quarry.

[kevint]

I don't wish for any ill will to begin. I am here looking for friends that love what i love- Rocks and Iron. Perhaps a little late in discovering the art of the straight razor it seems quite natural to me now. I could only pretend to be an expert on Japanese sharpening stones, so further education, research is my goal, thus furthering my pretense

I am a bit of a sword nut too so please excuse me for focusing on that.

http://thejapanblade.com/narutaki127.htm. " Narutaki is an East Mountain mine that produced very fine toishi awasedo"

[OLD_SCHOOL]

No ill will taken Kevin. I'm a rock nut myself, and a knife nut too, however since meeting some other nuts here, I realize I am only an amateur nut.

I have spent a lot of time, learning and gathering info about the hones from the Nakayama quarry, but more specifically the ones for razor finishing. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and of course when I see some make its way here, I find myself getting a bit agitated.

I'm sure I'm not the first to do so.

So it looks like we have swapped olive branches and are at peace.

[kevint]

Lets split a Chocera

and be blood brothers

[Ben325e]

sorry for responding so late... been at the in-laws showing off our new little one.

I'll pm dwarven chef on knifeforums (he seems to be more of a regular poster there...) and see what the response is.

[A_S]

Just curious to know whether anyone has seen the chosera stones being sold by rasurpur and knows if they are the same as the cho cera stones being discussed here.
I've been interested in these stones for quite some time, but after one too many unanswered e-mails from certain sellers (who shall remain nameless) reputed to be able to get these particular stones I gave up.
Rasurpur describes the stones as new, not just new to them but newly available (or at least that's how I understood it.) They also say that the stones are designed to be used dry, and I've not seen that before in any discussion that I have read about these particular stones. Also, the stones seem much cheaper from Rasurpur at 110 Euro's for the 10k versus $269+ in the US , I've never known that to happen before in the EU, even with the crappy exchange rate and murmurings of global financial meltdown
Finally there is the issue of spelling Cho Cera versus chosera at Rasurpur.
So, can anyone clue me in?
Kind regards,
Alex

[Philadelph]

I'm not gonna make a call on this one for sure without talking to both vendors first (which I don't care enough to do). With that being said they look similar if not the same. EXCEPT that all the stones at rasurpur besides the 10k are shown with bases that the other site said Naniwa stopped doing. Also, rasurpur talks all about how they need no water... I found this at the other place " It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly."

So one of them is wrong! I'm guessing it's rasurpur- it comes with a Nagura. Who on earth would use a Nagura without water? Or maybe I'm just uninformed here lol.

[Kees]

Originally Posted by xChris

I did some limited research too on this hone. Apparenetly, the grit breaks down as the hone is used, so you start out with a 10K but it gets finer as you go. Certainly interesting, and maybe I'll look into it again when I completely use (yeah, not likely) or sell one of my other hones.

Read the description of by Zeepk and you would think they use the same stones for their hones

Zeepk Straight Razor 'S Hone Stone Barber Knife - eBay (item 320308823500 end time Oct-14-08 15:28:22 PDT)

[xChris]

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I'm not gonna make a call on this one for sure without talking to both vendors first (which I don't care enough to do). With that being said they look similar if not the same. EXCEPT that all the stones at rasurpur besides the 10k are shown with bases that the other site said Naniwa stopped doing. Also, rasurpur talks all about how they need no water... I found this at the other place " It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly."

So one of them is wrong! I'm guessing it's rasurpur- it comes with a Nagura. Who on earth would use a Nagura without water? Or maybe I'm just uninformed here lol.

I found this info on the TFWW site.

Originally Posted by Tools for Woodworking

At our request, the factory is packaging these stones without bases to that they will fit in any existing sharpening jig you use, and so that you can easily use the both sides and the edge of the stone. We also think the stone will soak more evenly, and, more importantly, dry better. It is very important that the stones be soaked for 15 minutes before use, and after use, be kept away from heat and sunlight so that they dry evenly. If they're not allowed to dry slowly, the stone may develop minor cracks in the surface. The stones come with Nagura stones - used to work up a slurry and for flattening.