Problem establishing bevel

AusTexShaver · 10-06-2008, 03:07 AM

I have been trying to rehone a razor that came with a wicked frown.

I have leveled the blade edge but when trying to set the bevel there is a spot about an inch from the toe and about 3/8 inch wide that looks like the metal on one side is thin in that spot.

In that spot under the microscope one side of the blade shows the bevel a little thinner than the rest of the edge but on the other side there is no edge to the bevel and the bevel is about half as wide as the bevel on the rest of the blade.

I have tried the usual tricks (rolling X, circles, etc.) and nothing seems to get metal off that portion of the blade.

Any suggestions...or does this razor need to be reground?

JimmyHAD · 10-06-2008, 06:30 AM

Take a look at this thread here. I have only done one blade with a bad frown and I used Glen's technique. A lot of work to get it back to slight smile and put an edge on it. The bevels don't necessarily have to be even all the way across or the same on both sides of the blade. Of course you have to have some bevel. In my case if the razor hadn't been by a maker that I was looking for to fill a spot in my collection I never would have gone through all of the work it took. Good luck with yours.

AusTexShaver · 10-06-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

Take a look at this thread here. I have only done one blade with a bad frown and I used Glen's technique. A lot of work to get it back to slight smile and put an edge on it. The bevels don't necessarily have to be even all the way across or the same on both sides of the blade. Of course you have to have some bevel. In my case if the razor hadn't been by a maker that I was looking for to fill a spot in my collection I never would have gone through all of the work it took. Good luck with yours.

Actually Glens thread was my inspiration for this project. The only thing I did different was I only used 1 layer of tape (the tape I'm using is pretty thick) so I wouldn't have to remove so much metal at the higher grits.

After MUCH honing it had a very slight smile but there is still that ONE spot that doesn't appear to have any semblance of a proper bevel.

crazycliff200843 · 10-06-2008, 11:42 AM

Do you have any pictures of this? Something might have stressed the metal in that one spot a funny way? It doesn't sound like the metal is uniform there, is it level in that area? Does it stick out? Does it have a dip in it? (accross the flat of the blade, not the edge)

joke1176 · 10-06-2008, 11:50 AM

Without a pic I'm just guessing here...

It sounds like the blade is warped. Have you tried putting black magic marker on the bevel to make sure you are getting it all?

I have done a few frown-to-smile restores and they are a lot of work. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't that bad, just more difficult than just making it shave ready.

AusTexShaver · 10-06-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycliff200843

Do you have any pictures of this? Something might have stressed the metal in that one spot a funny way? It doesn't sound like the metal is uniform there, is it level in that area? Does it stick out? Does it have a dip in it? (accross the flat of the blade, not the edge)

Sorry but I'm using a cheap RadioShack scope so don't have a way to do a picture as it can't be seen by the naked eye.

It's like you took a finger and run perpendicular to the blade and removed a couple microns of metal. Maybe whoever did the hollowing grind hiccupped?

AusTexShaver · 10-06-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joke1176

Without a pic I'm just guessing here...

It sounds like the blade is warped. Have you tried putting black magic marker on the bevel to make sure you are getting it all?

I have done a few frown-to-smile restores and they are a lot of work. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't that bad, just more difficult than just making it shave ready.

A warped blade was my first thought but doing the magic marker thing doesn't show that. While one side does show a little less bevel width it does remove all the marker. The other side still has marker above where the bevel edge is on the rest of the blade but does remove the marker at the very edge of the blade...if that makes sense. And if it was just a warped blade a rolling X stroke should take care of that...and it's not working on this blade.

crazycliff200843 · 10-07-2008, 09:28 AM

How wide is the hone you are using? I've recently tried using a more narrower hone and I put a weird bevel in one spot after I caught the edge just right. I hope this helps or that you figure it out.

AusTexShaver · 10-07-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycliff200843

How wide is the hone you are using? I've recently tried using a more narrower hone and I put a weird bevel in one spot after I caught the edge just right. I hope this helps or that you figure it out.

All my hones are 3" wide.

I'm going to try adding a couple layers of tape on the spine and if that doesn't work I'll maybe try a narrower stone.

gssixgun · 10-07-2008, 03:47 PM

The 3 layers of tape help to concentrate the honing to evening up that edge, and cutting the corners off the square edge you created....
I always use the same cheap Scotch 3m electrical tape that you buy at Wally World, believe it or not somewhere on SRP is a test that one of the guys did about thickness and uniformity of different electrical tapes and the 3m was the most consistent

I wish I knew how to use computers better, I would do one of those cool graphic drawings of what I mean here.

But trust me when I say I have tried more than just this one way that I wrote about to do these types of repairs, this is the most consistent one that I have found, there are other ways to do this but I just refuse to sit there for hours and hours of honing to get so-so results....

Try the 3 layers of tape, and you need to remember that you are not honing here you are re-setting the bevel, in fact you are re-cutting almost like they do at the factory on new razors... If you watch those vids you will see they actually lift the spines on the razors...
Now I am not saying to be grinding on the razor but I am also not saying to use no pressure, at this stage a little pressure is necessary to get the edge cut evenly.... In fact I would recommend trying a two handed honing approach here, using the second hand to help keep the razor nice and even on the hone....

Let us know how it goes?????

AusTexShaver · 10-07-2008, 06:23 PM

"Try the 3 layers of tape, and you need to remember that you are not honing here you are re-setting the bevel, in fact you are re-cutting almost like they do at the factory on new razors... If you watch those vids you will see they actually lift the spines on the razors...
Now I am not saying to be grinding on the razor but I am also not saying to use no pressure, at this stage a little pressure is necessary to get the edge cut evenly.... In fact I would recommend trying a two handed honing approach here, using the second hand to help keep the razor nice and even on the hone....

Let us know how it goes?????"

Glen, thanks for those words of encouragement!

I've been grinding on this bad boy for days. I go for an hour or so until I get frustrated then go do something else.

A DMT 325 grit is what I'm trying to establish the bevel with and I think I'm using too light a touch. I'll try a little more aggressive approach in the next session.

It's driving me mad because I'm getting a great bevel (passes TNT, TPT, and shaves arm hair) on every part of the blade except that one spot.

AusTexShaver · 10-09-2008, 04:11 AM

Glen you are a genius...thank you so much for sharing that secret!

The combination of a couple more layers of tape and a little pressure was all it took. I now have a nice bevel over the entire length of the blade.

If you have the patience I have one more question about your method. While doing the "cutting bread" part of leveling the blade it changed the geometry of the nice round point of the toe to looking a little square where the round meets the bevel. I corrected this by smoothing this area with the blade perpendicular to the hone trying to follow the original line as much as possible. Is this how you do it?

gssixgun · 10-09-2008, 05:30 PM

Yes absolutely !!!!
You should see when you do a smiling blade fix hehehe I get into some serious hone contortions there

If that was my personal razor I might have left the modified round point on there, I have noticed many of the new "Round Point" razors have that squared edge to them..... Just another point of view I guess....