What the hey?

Nicky B · 07-24-2008, 04:30 PM

So I bought an old barber hone on eBay and it has a different grit on each side. I went to lap it (wet sandpaper style, 600 then 400)... the coarse side -- no problems (it just took forever), but the fine side is acting up on me. After I got it nice and flat, I noticed that it wasn't as smooth as it was before! In fact, the coarse side now feels smoother than the fine side. What gives?

Russel Baldridge · 07-24-2008, 04:40 PM

That is kinda strange, but as long as the surface is flat the grit particles will still work like they always have.

Anyone else have this kind of problem?

kelbro · 07-24-2008, 06:15 PM

Not as smooth or appears more porous?

Can you post a picture of the hone?

Are you certain that it was designed as a dual surface hone? The reason that I ask is that some of the older hones seemed to have a better 'fill' on one side.

Could it be a coticule with a slate back?

Nicky B · 07-24-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelbro

Not as smooth or appears more porous?

Can you post a picture of the hone?

Are you certain that it was designed as a dual surface hone? The reason that I ask is that some of the older hones seemed to have a better 'fill' on one side.

Could it be a coticule with a slate back?

It actually feels rougher to the touch.

I could try to post a picture. All I have is my camera phone though and it's not the best, but I can give it a shot once I get home.

And yep, I'm sure. It came with instructions saying it's two hones in one, which side to use first, etc. It also had a sticker on the side that said "Use this side first/Finish on this side" or something along those lines.

Sticky · 07-24-2008, 08:08 PM

I had that happen twice before with barber hones. The first was a Pike Ezy-Edge. The second was a "Perforated Hone Co." 2" x 3.5" (single grit). I agree that it's weird.

I also agree with Russell. i.e. I don't believe it affected their honing. Both of these hones are also, relatively, quite soft in lapping terms.

Nicky B · 07-24-2008, 08:16 PM

So you think I should be safe using it to finish?

Chris L · 07-24-2008, 09:48 PM

Sure I've seen this happen in lapping some finer grit barber hones. Try this experiment and report back: Take a razor that you're not shaving with that may be in need of restoration, or even take a kitchen knife, some sort of non-serrated even edged piece of steel. Then do about 50 passes on the "fine" surface of that lapped stone. Does it start to get smooth and shiny again? My bet is that it does.

Russel is right, the grit is the grit and even though it feels rough, it should polish.

Barber hones were created in a mold of some kind then fired. The surfaces in contact with the mold after being fired are shiny. The grit inside is not. Three types of fine grit barber hones that I own that seem to be nice and shiny and smooooooooooth even after lapping are: 3 line Swaty, "Perfect" hone (with paper label reminiscent of an Escher) and to a lesser extent a Regent. I think I have a "Deep Cabothy" that stays shiny after lapping. The 5-10 others I've lapped or owned lost their luster after lapping but gained it back after running steel/razors across them.

Chris L

Nicky B · 07-25-2008, 01:22 AM

Thanks guys! I did some passes with a kitchen knife and the hone quickly started to feel smooth again. Now I'm not worried anymore.

Utopian · 07-25-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky B

It actually feels rougher to the touch.

I could try to post a picture. All I have is my camera phone though and it's not the best, but I can give it a shot once I get home.

And yep, I'm sure. It came with instructions saying it's two hones in one, which side to use first, etc. It also had a sticker on the side that said "Use this side first/Finish on this side" or something along those lines.

I have two disparate thoughts.

First, the sticker sounds like the one found on Frictionite hones. However, when you lap the finishing side of a Frictionite, it will get significantly lighter but it remains smooth when lapped with a DMT plate. Perhaps you should do a follow-up lapping with a finer grit sandpaper? Maybe you have residual sandpaper grit embedded in the surface and finer sandpaper might remove it. This seems like an improbable solution but it might be worth a shot.

Second, if it is not a Frictionite, then it's something else.

I believe that some barber hones were just surface-coated with grit. If that is the case with your hone, you may have simply, and unfortunately, lapped the grit right off of the hone and are just left with the substrate.

JohnP · 07-25-2008, 05:43 AM

Call me wrongheaded, but I've NEVER lapped a barber hone and never regretted it. The closest I've come to this is to rub two of them together to help get rid of some ground in steel.
IMHO (which could, of course, be wrong) barber hones are not designed to work with a slurry, none of mine have even remotely dished or any such like a water stone does (after all, water stones release their particles into the "slurry" which does the sharpening-barber hones do not).
I've lapped a spyderco hone, but not a barber hone.
So far, perhaps I'm just lucky, but they continue to do fine.
Often, rather than even scrubbing as in the above example, I'll just hit them with oven cleaner. Soon after, they are as good as new.

Let the flames begin...

John P.

Nicky B · 07-25-2008, 12:25 PM

Actually, the fine side was almost completely flat, but the coarse side was significantly dished. It took me a good couple of hours to get it flat.

randydance062449 · 07-26-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

I have two disparate thoughts.

First, the sticker sounds like the one found on Frictionite hones. However, when you lap the finishing side of a Frictionite, it will get significantly lighter but it remains smooth when lapped with a DMT plate. Perhaps you should do a follow-up lapping with a finer grit sandpaper? Maybe you have residual sandpaper grit embedded in the surface and finer sandpaper might remove it. This seems like an improbable solution but it might be worth a shot.

Second, if it is not a Frictionite, then it's something else.

I believe that some barber hones were just surface-coated with grit. If that is the case with your hone, you may have simply, and unfortunately, lapped the grit right off of the hone and are just left with the substrate.

I agree that it sounds like the instructions for a Frictionite. I have a couple of those with the same labels.

I also have had a "Little Devil" hone that was only surface coated with abrasives and lapped them off the first time. Bummer!

randydance062449 · 07-26-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnP

Call me wrongheaded, but I've NEVER lapped a barber hone and never regretted it. The closest I've come to this is to rub two of them together to help get rid of some ground in steel.
IMHO (which could, of course, be wrong) barber hones are not designed to work with a slurry, none of mine have even remotely dished or any such like a water stone does (after all, water stones release their particles into the "slurry" which does the sharpening-barber hones do not).
I've lapped a spyderco hone, but not a barber hone.
So far, perhaps I'm just lucky, but they continue to do fine.
Often, rather than even scrubbing as in the above example, I'll just hit them with oven cleaner. Soon after, they are as good as new.

Let the flames begin...

John P.

The Little Frictionite 00 hone that I inherited from my grandfather came complete with instructions and a "rubbing" stone. The instructions said to use the rubbing stone to clean the hone of any build up. It works!

I do agree that most of the barber hones can probably be used as is without lapping. But...I think they will be better if they are lapped. There would simply be more contact with the edge.

There, my two cents!

Nicky B · 07-26-2008, 12:43 AM

Well, both sides seem to be honing my razor fine right now. But the real test will obviously come with my next shave.

JohnP · 07-26-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randydance062449

The Little Frictionite 00 hone that I inherited from my grandfather came complete with instructions and a "rubbing" stone. The instructions said to use the rubbing stone to clean the hone of any build up. It works!

I do agree that most of the barber hones can probably be used as is without lapping. But...I think they will be better if they are lapped. There would simply be more contact with the edge.

There, my two cents!

Randy, it's possible. I've just never seen one with a dish in it (yet). Mine all are perfectly flat except when they have chips and the like.
One that takes a rubbing stone might be an exception.
Mine typically get scrubbed clean or oven cleaner. I've not had a flattening problem with any of them so far, though. Did have to flatten my Belgians though.

John P.

Utopian · 07-29-2008, 03:50 AM

Actually, I have found that most of the barber hones I have lapped have been the opposite of dished. That is, the first region to be cleared is in the center of the hone, meaning that the center was the high point. The only exception to this is the coarser Carborundums, which are softer. I have found several of these to be quite dished in the center.

JohnP · 07-30-2008, 12:16 AM

Very possible. I do not own any Carborundum hones at any rate. One wonders if they wouldn't wear a little different than say an Itsapeech or Swaty due to action of the rubbing stone? Kind of makes it an oddball hone IMHO.
Apparently they're pretty good, though, based on how much people bid on them.

John P.