Coticule shortage?

sdsquarepoint · 09-10-2008, 05:18 AM

Does anyone know anything about the "Coticule shortage" mentioned on Howard's "The Perfect Edge" website Home page? MikeB

Utopian · 09-10-2008, 06:25 AM

Since Howard is a member of this forum, it might be best to direct the question to him. Of course, please let the rest of us know what you find out.

sdsquarepoint · 09-10-2008, 05:24 PM

No, I'm enquiring here as many are in the know and It is just small inquiry. I don't like bugging him for such a simple inquiry. MikeB

JimmyH-AD · 09-10-2008, 05:32 PM

There seems to be no shortage of them here . Both 6"x2" Koshers and the larger and smaller Selected grade are available.

sdsquarepoint · 09-10-2008, 05:39 PM

That's good. I was just afraid the quarry closed or something. I might go for a 6x1 (narrow) for my collection. I'll check with Howard later on as I like to give him my business. Thanks MikeB

JimmyH-AD · 09-10-2008, 06:01 PM

I have a couple from Howard and they are as good as they get. Also have a big kosher grade from Ardennes and it is mighty nice too.

holli4pirating · 09-10-2008, 06:50 PM

I am short on coticules; the shortage is very real. :-p

loueedacat · 09-10-2008, 06:51 PM

I think it's nothing more than that there is a limited supply (like one quarry) so when it's done there's no more unless someone finds another quarry. I got a nice 6X2 yellow coticule from Howard and love it by the way.

loueedacat · 09-10-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

I have a couple from Howard and they are as good as they get. Also have a big kosher grade from Ardennes and it is mighty nice too.

What on earth is a kosher grade hone?

Do you only eat it with milk?

foundlingofdollar · 09-10-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loueedacat

What on earth is a kosher grade hone?

Do you only eat it with milk?

A kosher grade hone will be most recognizable because it will be all one color with no veins running through it. It is "unmixed" thus the term kosher.

I know about kosher, but not really coticules, so please someone correct me here if I'm wrong.

JimmyH-AD · 09-11-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundlingofdollar

A kosher grade hone will be most recognizable because it will be all one color with no veins running through it. It is "unmixed" thus the term kosher.

I know about kosher, but not really coticules, so please someone correct me here if I'm wrong.

That is the impression I have too from what I have read. The one that I got from Ardennes fits that description. As Randy and Russel frequently point out all natural stones have different honing characteristics. I have a natural coticule and it is a fast cutter on either side. My tiger stripe is not as fast but it is a good hone.

My kosher is a finishing stone for sure. It is not nearly as aggressive as my other two. All coticules and all cut a bit differently. I have heard that rabbis who do the circumcision seek out perfect unblemished stones and maybe that is how the kosher label came to be for those stones ?

foundlingofdollar · 09-11-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

That is the impression I have too from what I have read. The one that I got from Ardennes fits that description. As Randy and Russel frequently point out all natural stones have different honing characteristics. I have a natural coticule and it is a fast cutter on either side. My tiger stripe is not as fast but it is a good hone.

My kosher is a finishing stone for sure. It is not nearly as aggressive as my other two. All coticules and all cut a bit differently. I have heard that rabbis who do the circumcision seek out perfect unblemished stones and maybe that is how the kosher label came to be for those stones ?

Biblically kosher restrictions were a mark of the Children of Abraham's separation from the cultural practices of surrounding people groups. Thus one did not wear garments of mixed fabrics, or eat meat mixed with milk, etc. Kosher has often been used synonymously with "unmixed" or"pure". I had not known previously known about the stones used in circumcision before, very interesting.

loueedacat · 09-11-2008, 01:44 AM

Well, I've got a son coming in December, and I'll have to be absolutely clear with the moyle that he is not to even think about using my coticule or escher! If he plays his cards right I might let him use the cotigura slurry stone......

Gotta say the whole circumcision covenant with god thing is the one part of judaism that still makes me scratch my head eight years after converting, but I digress........

JimmyH-AD · 09-11-2008, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundlingofdollar

Biblically kosher restrictions were a mark of the Children of Abraham's separation from the cultural practices of surrounding people groups. Thus one did not wear garments of mixed fabrics, or eat meat mixed with milk, etc. Kosher has often been used synonymously with "unmixed" or"pure". I had not known previously known about the stones used in circumcision before, very interesting.

I am not sure that what I heard is accurate. But as loueedacat said, the moyel or mohel is the fellow who does the cutting and somewhere I read/heard that they seem to desire kosher coticules to sharpen the blade. I have also read that years ago they favored Eschers so who knows what is marketing hype and what is for real?

loueedacat · 09-11-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

I am not sure that what I heard is accurate. But as loueedacat said, the moyel or mohel is the fellow who does the cutting and somewhere I read/heard that they seem to desire kosher coticules to sharpen the blade. I have also read that years ago they favored Eschers so who knows what is marketing hype and what is for real?

I have heard that lately they have been experincing with shaptons and the results are promising.

Howard · 09-30-2008, 07:58 PM

I received a box of coticules from Belgium yesterday and thus have a small stock of naturals in 8x3 and 6x2 and coticule only 6x2 and 8x3 stones as well. Also have some beautiful large bout in wooden boxes. This shipment took a couple of months to get to me as they were having trouble getting enough coticule out of the mine. Oh, also have some sweet little 4x2 coticules. Blue stones in stock as usual.

littlesilverbladefromwale · 10-05-2008, 01:11 PM

Hi Howard, I forgot to ask before, do you have a link for you Hone Museum?
Cheers M

Howard · 11-16-2008, 11:25 PM

A kosher grade coticule is one that is very soft and is the type preferred by rabbis to sharpen their 17" knives to cut the throats of animals according to the ancient rules and laws of "koshruth". The stone doesn't have to be perfectly clear yellow or anything like that but it does have to have a certain feel which the rabbis know immediately. I have had extensive discussions with many rabbis about this and another reason they mention for the stones being kosher is that they are waterstones and not oil stones. The head rabbi at the Iowa plant who has 48 rabbis working for him told me that with oil stones there is always the possibility someone could have used oil from an unkosher animal (like a pig) and that would make the stone "traif" or unkosher. The kosher grade stones are always sold at a premium, usually 30% over Select grade. To that end, there have recently been a large number of stones on the web being sold as kosher stones when I know darn well that they're not. Buyer beware! In fact, Rob, from the quarry, told me a couple of years ago that they only quarried about 20 - 30 kg of kosher grade stones a year. I bought a couple and the rabbi sent them back. They were yellow stones and a little softer than a Select grade stone. The rabbis are VERY picky. So, that's what I know about kosher stones and BTW, the rabbi who does the additional 2 years of training to be certified as a "schochet" (say that word as if you're clearing your throat "show - chate" came to be known (in English) as a "schecht-er" which is where my name came from. So I guess my name means "ritual slaughter". Ha!

littlesilverbladefromwale · 11-17-2008, 08:06 AM

I love a bit of social history, thank you Howard.

Howard · 11-17-2008, 01:10 PM

Never worry about bugging me with a small question. None of us are born knowing everything! Anyway, the coticule shortage is due to the belgians having to go deeper and deeper to get coticule. They've acquired a lot of heavy new machinery such as cranes and bulldozers and they all eat petroleum products. This has led to an increase in price and prices will be going up significantly in January. The quarry has been mining coticule for 125 years and we may be seeing the shortages increase dramatically over the next year. This is not unprecedented! Water of Ayr, Dalmore Blue, Escher, Charnley Forest, Eidsborg, etc. are all natural stones which have run out or disappeared over time as the mines were depleted.