[gary haywood]

I seem to be able to achieve hht on the 1k and 4k.When progress to the 8k and mainly 12k kitiyama i seem to loose the hht but then by moving on to the .5 dp or chr oxide and then stropping my razor will then pass the hht Icarn't understand this any one else had thois happen and any advice to why.

[gssixgun]

HHT on the 1k and or 4k doesn't really mean all that much, they can give a positive test just because of the roughness of the edge....
In fact HHT in itself is not an indicator of a smooth edge, if yer getting a true HHT after stropping (no manipulation of the hair) then just test shave that is really the only test that matters...

Keep in mind that a true HHT, the hair just pops when you touch it to the edge, hold the hair so there is about 1 inch between your fingers and the edge bring it straight down, and don't move the razor, don't pull or slide the hair, it should just pop... I test at a minimum of 5 different spots on the edge from heel to toe after stropping, if that hair just falls away on all those spots, then you are on the right track... GO SHAVE

[Mike_ratliff]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

HHT on the 1k and or 4k doesn't really mean all that much, they can give a positive test just because of the roughness of the edge....
In fact HHT in itself is not an indicator of a smooth edge, if yer getting a true HHT after stropping (no manipulation of the hair) then just test shave that is really the only test that matters...

Keep in mind that a true HHT, the hair just pops when you touch it to the edge, hold the hair so there is about 1 inch between your fingers and the edge bring it straight down, and don't move the razor, don't pull or slide the hair, it should just pop... I test at a minimum of 5 different spots on the edge from heel to toe after stropping, if that hair just falls away on all those spots, then you are on the right track... GO SHAVE

Good point, and very good advice, but also keep in mind, not all razors will be capable of passing HHT even when scary sharp.
I'm beginning to think the HHT result is as much a result of the grain in the blade as sharpness.
My best shavers have never passed HHT well, but they provide the smoothest closest shaves.
Don't worry about HHT, get the razor where it feels sharp enough to you, and test shave it.
with a little practice you will be able to tell if a blade is sharp by the way it slides across the hone. (again a subjective test...)
Honing can be a science, but it can also depend on your instincts, and other senses as well. Keep in mind that the end result can only be measured by the shave itself.

[gssixgun]

And Mike is the perfect person to answer here, because that is a true HHT in his Sig Line

[Mike_ratliff]

It's an okay HHT, I can get razors to pass better, but that razor has been my best shaver for some time.

[gssixgun]

Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

It's an okay HHT, I can get razors to pass better

A true fanatic never satisfied................

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

if that hair just falls away on all those spots, then you are on the right track... GO SHAVE

I posted my observations on different types of HHT behavior based on different levels of sharpness recently. I think you summed up an optimum HHT perfectly, Glen. The hair silently and effortless seems to "fall away" rather than be grabbed by the edge, bend to the edge and finally cut in two, exhibit a "ting" on full and extra hollows, etc.

Truly the shave test is the ultimate test; after all, I think all of our goals here are to achieve a keen and comfortable SHAVING EDGE rather than simply trying to achieve the ultimate theoretical sharpest edge possible.

That said, however, I'm an HHT fanatic. I just am. and I too test along the entire edge by testing in 4-6 areas from heel all the way to the toe.

Chris L

[Bart]

My experience exactly.
I believe the "toothiness" of a lower grit edge helps the razor penetrate the hair. On a microscopic level, while cutting the hair, only a few sharp spikes touch the hair and the increased PSI on those points allow the razor to punch through. Another reason might be that the teeth catch better between the hair cells. It's much like a serated knife that cuts tomatoes with great ease, while a non serated knife must be significantly keener before it does that job equally well.

On a side note: I use the HHT mainly as a test to check if the bevels are perfectly meeting, before I jump up to the finer hones. I believe the HHT excells on that, even if I need to drag the hair accross the edge a bit, before it pops. (I seem to disagree with Glenn on that one)

While progressing on finer hones, the edge looses HHT-ability. I believe that's especcialy true with most of the natural hones, certainly the ones you use with a slurry. The teeth are smoothened out, the edge rounded a bit on a microscopic level, which is important for a comfortable and nick free shave. But first we need to compensate the absense of the penetrative force of the former theeth, by refining that edge to a thinner state. When that task is achieved, the razor cuts a hanging hair again. (On this one, I agree with Glenn that the hair should fall immediately and effortlessly, at this stage, to be called successful)

Bart.

[Philadelph]

I think Mike nailed it here. I personally don't even use the HHT. I usually only use a microscope for bevel setting then arm hair test and test shave later on. You can even have a razor which will not pass HHT at all, anywhere on the blade, yet it will provide a superior shave to any razor you've ever tried.

[Lt.Arclight]

I agree with Bart, at least for me,my good shavers won't always pass the HHT. I can take any of my razors and with a .25 diamond pasted balsa strop get them to pass everytime- but to shave with that blade would be quite a disaster. Great way to get a dermabrasion treatment cheap though.

[Russel Baldridge]

Haha, I kinda feel like a caveman with the way I do things . I just hone until it shaves forearm hair (the underside of the forearm that has the really fine hairs) as smoothly and comfortably as I want it on my face, then go test shave.

Funny how many different methods will lead to the same great edge.

[gssixgun]

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Haha, I kinda feel like a caveman with the way I do things . I just hone until it shaves forearm hair

Don't feel like the lone stranger there Russel, I always have a bald left forearm....

[JimmyH-AD]

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Don't feel like the lone stranger there Russel, I always have a bald left forearm....

+ 1 I am forced to use my right leg now.

[AusTexShaver]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the HHT. I have a TI that never passes that test after being honed and stropped properly yet gives the best velvety smooth shave I've ever had.

I think the HHT has too many variables (hair thickness, moisture content, etc) and only true test is to shave and see how it feels. And don't be discouraged if it doesn't pass the shave test...I've got one razor that sometimes takes 2 or 3 trys before I like the way it shaves.

[gary haywood]

Good point i personaly think i get a bit obsessed with the hht. I usauly find tpt if passes is normaly a good enough indicator I'll stick to that and just test shave.

[kaptain_zero]

My personal view is the HHT is only of value after you calibrate it with your shaving results. A blade that passes MY HHT, may not pass yours..... hair differs from gent to gent as does the method of testing. For me, I don't get to carried away with it, but I do use it to tell me where I'm at in honing and no, I don't do it properly... I just pass the blade over my head or use my mustache and based on how it catches or tugs I can tell exactly what I need to do to get it to where I want that edge to be.... for me. Hey... my mustache needs regular trimming anyway!

Kaptain "Mustache regularly, top of head.... uhmmm quite rarely anymore" Zero

[AusTexShaver]

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

My personal view is the HHT is only of value after you calibrate it with your shaving results. A blade that passes MY HHT, may not pass yours..... hair differs from gent to gent as does the method of testing. For me, I don't get to carried away with it, but I do use it to tell me where I'm at in honing and no, I don't do it properly... I just pass the blade over my head or use my mustache and based on how it catches or tugs I can tell exactly what I need to do to get it to where I want that edge to be.... for me. Hey... my mustache needs regular trimming anyway!

Kaptain "Mustache regularly, top of head.... uhmmm quite rarely anymore" Zero

Can any of the true honemeisters chime in here and answer a question that's puzzled me for years.

Since no two people have the same kind of hair and some of us are cursed with hair that can't produce a true HHT is there ANY other substance that offers consistency and repeatibility that can be substituted for hair?

I'm down to my last few wild bavarian yak pubic hairs that I use for testing the sharpness of my razors and am starting to panic.

[napoleon]

I'm a newbie but I think the best way to test the sharpness is to learn what a sharp razor feels like on the thumb test and always try to recreate the feeling.

[Bart]

Originally Posted by napoleon

I'm a newbie but I think the best way to test the sharpness is to learn what a sharp razor feels like on the thumb test and always try to recreate the feeling.

Talking about a true subjective test...
I use the TPT, probably even more often than I do the HHT.
Nevertheless it annoys me a bit, that the HHT is by some (that don't use it?) continuously dismissed as neat trick, great to impress friends on parties, but inapt as a true sharpness test.

Of course, one needs to learn how to read the HHT, and find some way of personal calibration with it. This is much the same as with the TPT.
But in the end, a HHT tells you how easily a razor will cut a hair. If done properly, it 'll even tell you how well a razor can sever a grease-free, well moistened hair. That is the closest thing to actual shaving I can think of, and for my shaving, there is a solid analogy between how I read the results of my HHT and how well that razor performs during my shave.

Furthemore, IF the hair is clean -meaning not just pulled out of a scalp that was washed 12 hours earlier, but taken from a strand that was harvested immediately after a thorough shampooing-, and IF the hair is remoistened a bit, many of you would be surprised how little difference there is performance-wise between various hairtypes.

Bart.