Shapton Questions

AusTexShaver · 09-23-2008, 07:54 PM

Until now I have lapped my hones by using the glass/sandpaper method with good results.

In the quest for the perfect edge I have recently added a Shapton 16k to my collection and have a few questions.

First off this was the most unlevel hone I have ever purchased. It took 3 tries using glass and 400 grit wet/dry to scuff off the pencil marks before it was completely flat. In addition it was the hardest stone I've ever encountered so this was not a fast process. This coupled with the propaganda on the Shapton site stating doing it this way doesn't leave an optimum surface has me lusting after a diamond stone to lap with. So now for the questions for those experienced with using Shapton stones....

Is there really a difference in the final surface of the stone between using sandpaper and a diamond lap?

Is there any difference between using the DGLP and one of cheaper hones such as the Norton or DMT?

If there is a significant difference and considering the Shapton is so hard it probably needs lapping only once a year (unless you are honing for a living) why isn't someone offering a lapping service like they do for honing a razor? After my experience I would have gladly paid someone a few bucks and done something more productive with that afternoon!

foundlingofdollar · 09-23-2008, 08:08 PM

Wow, I must have missed your arrival here. I don't have the Shaptons, so I can't really help you out with anything, but one Austin shaver to another, Welcome Aboard!

Chris L · 09-23-2008, 08:20 PM

I have not used sandpaper to lap but I do/have owned diamond plates including the GDLP.

The only difference between the GDLP and other diamond lapping plates like the DMT D8C 325 grit is the flatness or claimed flatness of the hones. DMTs work well on the Shapton ceramic stones. I have never owned the Norton lapping plate, but the diamond lapping plates need no significant maintenance and stay flat.

You're correct, the Shapton ceramic stones, especially the higher grit stones (4K on up) are very hard. If I only hone a razor or two, I clean the higher grit stones with a soft bristle brush under running water without trouble rather than lap after each session.

The reason lapping services aren't widely offered (Josh Earl was offering to lap stones but I don't think he does anymore since he sold his DMT D8XX 120 grit plate) is that the demand is not very high. The stone owner having to pay shipping both ways in addition to a honing charge would approach half the cost of owning a lapping plate.

Chris L

AusTexShaver · 09-23-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris L

I have not used sandpaper to lap but I do/have owned diamond plates including the GDLP.

The only difference between the GDLP and other diamond lapping plates like the DMT D8C 325 grit is the flatness or claimed flatness of the hones. DMTs work well on the Shapton ceramic stones. I have never owned the Norton lapping plate, but the diamond lapping plates need no significant maintenance and stay flat.

You're correct, the Shapton ceramic stones, especially the higher grit stones (4K on up) are very hard. If I only hone a razor or two, I clean the higher grit stones with a soft bristle brush under running water without trouble rather than lap after each session.

The reason lapping services aren't widely offered (Josh Earl was offering to lap stones but I don't think he does anymore since he sold his DMT D8XX 120 grit plate) is that the demand is not very high. The stone owner having to pay shipping both ways in addition to a honing charge would approach half the cost of owning a lapping plate.

Chris L

I can see where shipping would be an issue (I probably wouldn't pay round trip costs to send one stone for lapping) BUT lapping (unlike honing) isn't exactly rocket science so I'm surprised no stores are doing it inhouse as with the proper tools it would only take a few minutes...and more importantly might save someone who doesn't know better from making a bad edge even worse by assuming that new $100+ they just got is flat.

kaptain_zero · 09-23-2008, 08:50 PM

I agree with everything already said and will add that there's no particular reason to use a diamond plate over wet/dry and a flat surface other than speed/convenience. I would also suggest that if you wish to continue with using abrasive sheets as your method of choice, you drop to 220 grit and if you have a lot of work to do, even 120 grit. That should speed up the process. There is no need to go particularly fine on the lapping grit as long as the scratch pattern doesn't cause any problems with what you are honing. You are not lapping the grit as much as breaking down the binder between the grit particles to get them to release. Of course, the 16k and 30K are finishing stones so keeping the scratch pattern fine would be a good idea. The DMT D8C rated at 325 grit seems amply fine for this work.

Regards

Christian

Russel Baldridge · 09-23-2008, 08:51 PM

If the lapping grit doesn't get stuck in the hone's surface, there's no reason sandpaper and glass should be any different than a diamond plate, except for ease of use.

If it's flat, I say use it and lap it with sandpaper until you feel like you really want a diamond plate.

(though, DMT's are a great deal for the price and can be used as honing surfaces themselves

)

kevint · 09-23-2008, 09:17 PM

I was just looking at japan woodworker. They have a kanaban plate for 17.95. It is unlikely to be super flat but it might be flat enough for razor work. add a little abrasive and your on your way.

I have tried sandpaper and it is a drag. At Hida tool they have sandpaper made for lapping stones and plane blocks: never used it, just sayin' it may be a little better than regular stuff 4 bucks a sheet. It's a little rough sounding though 80 and 60 grit.

These days diamonds are a boys best friends

AusTexShaver · 09-25-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AusTexShaver

If there is a significant difference and considering the Shapton is so hard it probably needs lapping only once a year (unless you are honing for a living) why isn't someone offering a lapping service like they do for honing a razor? After my experience I would have gladly paid someone a few bucks and done something more productive with that afternoon!

I wish I had known about this site before ordering my Shapton. For $5 they will prelap your hone. Money well spent!

The Perfect Edge

IsaacRN · 09-25-2008, 04:45 AM

I cant say enough positive things about Howard at the Perfect Edge. When it comes to my hones...hes the only one that gets my money so far.

JimmyH-AD · 09-25-2008, 04:53 AM

Not for the OP but in general if you aren't going to do a lot of honing I guess a pre-lapped hone is fine. OTOH, it is nice to have your own system whether it be plate or sandpaper and get the hang of using it. The day will come when you will have to flatten your hones and if you do a lot of honing it will come sooner then later.

AusTexShaver · 09-25-2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

Not for the OP but in general if you aren't going to do a lot of honing I guess a pre-lapped hone is fine. OTOH, it is nice to have your own system whether it be plate or sandpaper and get the hang of using it. The day will come when you will have to flatten your hones and if you do a lot of honing it will come sooner then later.

I agree but the stone I received was VERY unlevel and since the only paper I had handy was 400 grit it took me the better part of an afternoon to get it lapped properly. Since the price of a prelapped stone is about the same as a few sheets of sandpaper AND the fact the Shapton is so hard it will probably never need to be lapped again I would have gladly paid the $5...and now that it's level the next time should only take 15 minutes instead of several hours.