[Colin Howkins]

Following comments from my last post that I may be missing somthing by not having a sharp enough razor, I thought - well that's a fair enough comment for I have been plodding away for some 40 odd years using a razor "my way" and never previously had anyone to discuss the matters of razors with.

At this stage I must note that I have always been happy with the results I have obtained with a razor finished to what I now know as about 8000 + strop.

Now have paste etc, and there is no doubt the razor is markedly sharper that it was - how did this translate into a shaving result?

Well, not as good as I thought. I now nick myself far more often than I ever used to prior to VSR [very sharp razor]. Previously I would regularly go weeks or months without a nick

Taking into account that I am not young and the trick as you get older is keeping your skin taut whilst you shave, and that the razor will take the line of least resistance, I now find that the previously sharp razor would [obvioulsy] to some extent roll over the imperfections in my somewhat imperfect face, whereas the VSR goes straight through, taking its line of least resistance and a bit of me with it.

I therfore make the conclusion that the sharpest razor does not necessarily translate into the best result.

I would be interested to hear comments, for as previously stated, this is the first time I have ever had that I could discuss such matters

Regards to all

[majurey]

It's a question that does crop up every now and then. Points that have been made in the past include:

• Perhaps like Feather straights, they can give too harsh a shave.
• The sharper the blade, the more delicate the edge, and therefore the more fragile and susceptible to micro-chipping.
• Sharp blades do not lead to cuts, counter-intuitively it's duller blades that tend to lead to nicks (perhaps due to increased pressure by the user to make up for the less than optimum edge?).

Personally speaking, I've never used a Feather or disposable straight, so can't comment on their performance (though I have had barber shave using Feathers and that seemed fine, although the barber used an incredibly light touch and therefore did not achieve as close a shave as I normally give myself).

However, I have definitely found that duller edges give me more nicks and weepers than sharp ones.

[Lt.Arclight]

To answer your question, at least IMO, No. A razor can be sharp and give a very comfortable shave,easily cut through the toughest beard without giving you a razor burn.

A sharp razor, like one you could create with excessive use of .25 micron diamond paste will turn your face into hamburger. This is due to the edge being very fragile,breaking down during the shave exposing your flesh to micro-chipping and roughness.

You can and SHOULD create a SHARP,well defined bevel on a coarse grit hone. It will pass the HHT. By using finer grits the edge is refined. I have shaved with a Feather and find the edge VERY sharp-yet VERY uncomfortable. Thoses blades have been photographed under very high magnification (can't find the link) and they look scary with obvious micro-serrations.

Provided you use good technique, a sharp"shave ready" razor is far safer to use. It will cut with very little effort and cause less irritation than a dull blade which will result in an increase in effort to FORCE the edge to cut the whiskers.

[sicboater]

Hey guys,

Moved this thread to honing to put it in front of more folks with whom you may discuss!

Thanks!
-Rob

[OLD_SCHOOL]

Originally Posted by Colin Howkins

At this stage I must note that I have always been happy with the results I have obtained with a razor finished to what I now know as about 8000 + strop.

Now have paste etc, and there is no doubt the razor is markedly sharper that it was - how did this translate into a shaving result?

Well, not as good as I thought. I now nick myself far more often than I ever used to prior to VSR [very sharp razor]. Previously I would regularly go weeks or months without a nick


I therfore make the conclusion that the sharpest razor does not necessarily translate into the best result.


Regards to all

I don't think its a matter of your razor being too sharp, but more along the lines of being actually shave ready. You have more than likely developed a technique for using a razor honed off 8k, which worked against you once you got your razor sharper. Its the same with kitchen knives, some people get used to using mildly sharp knives, that have dulled over time, then when they get it professionally honed once in the blue moon, those people use the knife the same way and cut themselves, because they did not have the correct technique for a sharp knife. You understand what I mean?

Next time you have a shave, slow yourself down and use a lighter touch. It's probably going to feel like your learning to shave all over again, but in the end, it will be well worth it. You may just find yourself posting here again in a week, saying "What was I thinking?"

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

[Johnny J]

+1 for what Old School says. When Glen hones a razor for me, I cut the $h1t out of myself a couple times because I wasn't used to using something that sharp. (I didn't even know it was possible for anything to be that sharp!) After that I went out and bought a 12K Chinese stone from Woodcraft & now I prefer a sharper edge.

[nathanjones]

Personally I think a razor can be too sharp. I had a razor that I finished off on a pasted strop and it was very, very sharp. It went through my beard like the proverbial squeege (I have a thick course beard) you couldn't even hear the hairs being cut. I did not get any irritation but I didn't like the shave, the blade some how felt too sharp. I had a few extra weepers on my face but nothing out of the ordinary. Maybe it was the lack of feedback from the razor, I don't know. About 1 week later (of using it everyday) it settled down to normal and I was happy again.
I appreciate that this was a more subjective thing for me and my beard type but I prefer my blades that way rather than as sharp as possible.

[JimmyH-AD]

At 60 years old and with an angular face with all sorts of nooks and crannies stretching is important to me too. I rarely get a nick and my secret is as Old School mentioned a light touch. An old barber told me years ago that when shaving with a straight if the razor pulls at all don't force it. I never forgot that and I think that is why I don't get nicks. One other thing is that I do one complete shave taking off whatever comes off , rinse and re-lather and repeat. I never try to get it all in one pass.

[Chris L]

My experience is that sharper razor definitely needs a different touch than less sharp but comfortably shaving razor. I tend to be fairly heavy handed when I shave. I never force through whiskers, but I do things in shaving angles and pressure sometimes that would get me in a world of serious hurt with a uber-sharp crazy wicked sharp for sharp's sake edge.

Chris L

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Next time you have a shave, slow yourself down and use a lighter touch.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'd add that if the "VSR" feels uncomfortable or tends to cause irritation, you might try finishing on a different high grit hone or paste. I recently got a razor from a member that was finished on a pasted strop. It was very sharp and well-honed, but it felt uncomfortable during the shave. I did a few laps on my Nakayama and it completely transformed the feel of the razor. It's still very sharp, but it also feels very soft while I shave.

[thebigspendur]

I think honing a razor is a balancing act between having the edge so sharp it becomes too fragile and crumbles and microchips too easily. However I wouldn't call that too sharp I would just say the edge was ruined. I think a razor should be as sharp as possible while still giving good service with multiple shaves. I find when I get an uncomfortable shave thats the first sign a razor needs to go back to the hone. .25 diamond is a special case because of the way it cuts with those big xtls but even then the harsh shave usually lasts for 1 or maybe 2 shaves. Its much easier to overdo it with diamond because it cuts so fast and aggressively.

I'm of the school that a razor need to be as sharp as possible. If not then you start letting yourself do some of the work as opposed to the razor doing it and thats a recipe for cuts and nicks as you begin to apply pressure (ow it hurts to even write that).

[kevint]

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I think honing a razor is a balancing act between having the edge so sharp it becomes too fragile and crumbles and microchips too easily. However I wouldn't call that too sharp I would just say the edge was ruined. I think a razor should be as sharp as possible while still giving good service with multiple shaves. I find when I get an uncomfortable shave thats the first sign a razor needs to go back to the hone. .25 diamond is a special case because of the way it cuts with those big xtls but even then the harsh shave usually lasts for 1 or maybe 2 shaves. Its much easier to overdo it with diamond because it cuts so fast and aggressively.

I'm of the school that a razor need to be as sharp as possible. If not then you start letting yourself do some of the work as opposed to the razor doing it and thats a recipe for cuts and nicks as you begin to apply pressure (ow it hurts to even write that).

That's how I feel as well.
I've never used .25, but if the edge is so thin it fails, then its no longer sharp it's broken

[netsurfr]

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

.
I'm of the school that a razor need to be as sharp as possible. If not then you start letting yourself do some of the work as opposed to the razor doing it and thats a recipe for cuts and nicks as you begin to apply pressure (ow it hurts to even write that).

+1 This is my philosophy also. I love when my razors approach the sharpness of a Feather blade. The blade just glides over my face with no effort. As long as I apply no pressure, the razor inflicts no damage. I do have to stretch the skin, however.

[onimaru55]

G'day Colin
I had a similar experience to you. I always honed up to a Chinese 12K then stropped on leather. After adding the CrO strop to the equation I immediately nicked my self but I like the extra keenness. A lighter touch is needed & I find the edge settles after a few shaves but now I add a final pasted strop with Jewellers rouge after the CrO and get comfortable shaves immediately. Blades still pass the HHT, just a little more polished.