surgical black arkansas pointers please

chee16 · 10-03-2008, 04:50 AM

so bought a surgical black arkansas hone to basically bring back a razor that was sharp when i bought it but is kinda loosing its edge. i have heard that these hones are very slow but will do the job. i also have a chromium oxide strop to work with but i am in the midst of buying a new strop as i sliced my other one pretty good. any advice or experiences would be great thanks.

Shave4Fun · 10-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chee16

so bought a surgical black arkansas hone to basically bring back a razor that was sharp when i bought it but is kinda loosing its edge. i have heard that these hones are very slow but will do the job. i also have a chromium oxide strop to work with but i am in the midst of buying a new strop as i sliced my other one pretty good. any advice or experiences would be great thanks.

Same question here.
I see that the Black Arkansas stones are also fair priced and would like to have some feedback from users.
Roger

English · 10-03-2008, 03:45 PM

The Arkansas stones are slow cutters but will do a good job if you have a very light touch. I tried a translucent white stone which is supposed to be the finest of the Arkansas stones.
For me it did an OK job but I'm a bit heavy handed and I didn't have the Chromium Oxide back then. With CrOx as a finishing polish, I'm sure your Arkansas stone will do just fine.

One more thing, it is preferable to use the hone with water and not oil, because the oil will help the swarf clog the stone and reduce the cutting action and you don't want this with a razor. If you like a suction feel, a bit of lather or liquid soap together with the water will give a similar feel to oil without the clogging.

You must ensure the stone has a perfectly flat surface by lapping it before putting a razor near it. Always clean the stone after use or if it looks dirty.

The problem, is it is a bit restrictive and doesn't have the flexibility of other natural stones that are out their.
I'm not so sure that a really good Arkansas is so cheap anymore. The translucent whites are usually $50+ from a reputable supplier. I think a Belgian blue coticule is around the same price or cheaper and it is better. The norton 4000/8000 is also highly recommended.

To get a comfortable shave though, you will have to finish with CrOx or newspaper and finally strop 50 to 100 times on a leather hone.

Hope this helps.

chee16 · 10-03-2008, 03:53 PM

that does help. thank you

now for my next question.
i have already tried it with oil(the older fellow who i bought it from told me that is what he uses and has used for about 40 years, and i don't doubt his word), and it wasn't bad actually, definitely an improvement in sharpness. so if i want to use water with it how should i clean the oil off the stone. i know the oil is thin so it shouldn't take much. thanks again.

oh and if anyone has any tips on how to know how much pressure to use when honing i would appreciate it. and i will be looking through the archives here also.

English · 10-04-2008, 12:27 PM

The stones are usually used by carpenters and craftsmen to give a final polish to the tools like chisels and wood plane blades after the tools have been sharpened on a lower grit stone.
The bad news,
The stone absorbs the oil and so it is difficult if not impossible to remove.
The oil will help absorb the swarf into the stone and develop a shiny surface which you don't want.
The good news,
I would start by buying some 800/1000 grit sandpaper and rub the stone on it. Add some liquid soap such as dsihwashing soap onto the paper to help break down the oil. Rub away until you have a new non shiny clean and FLAT surface.
Now try it with water.
At worst, just rub it on the wet and dry until you have a new flat non shiny surface and use it with oil but be careful to remove all swarf and reoil regularly. The swarf will stop you getting a sharp razor edge.

Just so you are clear a large grain of sand will put a ding in the edge of a honed sharp razor and so you can see that the swarf is bad news.

For the record and from what I have read, the stone will be equivalent to a 4000 to 6000 grit Japanes hone.

chee16 · 10-04-2008, 12:42 PM

thanks very much. that was exactl what i needed to know.
now i just have to decide if i want to keep using oil or try to convert. it didn't cost me much so i knew eventually i would need a better hone.

Russel Baldridge · 10-04-2008, 03:49 PM

I've been told by many Arkansas stone users and retailers that the oil prevents loading up more than water does. And it doesn't make sense that woodworkers would desire a really slow cutting stone either, many long time oilstone users convert to using waterstones because they're so much faster, IIRC there just wasn't any other (commonly available) option for a long time in America.

Give it a shot, for sure, but be aware of their slow cutting properties and the fact that it may not be a fine enough finishing media.

kevint · 10-04-2008, 04:22 PM

Lapping Novaculites on your diamond plate is near enough to plate abuse to figure the cost relevant to stepping up to a more lapable hone. it wears 'em down too soon. To do it on sandpaper I think I'd choose 120, 220 something like that

Cutting a fresh face on an old glazed ark. will help a lot though. I haven't used one enough to have an opinion whether water works better or not, but i have lapped old oily stones to restore them, to be used with water and that seems to suffice for ridding the hone of its permanent oil stone status.

These babies are just not very friable so it isn't very long before you notice it no longer cuts as fast as its fresh lapped surface performed.

maybe that helps to raise the polish level to higher level than the actual grit size of the stone

Kees · 10-04-2008, 05:14 PM

I sold my Arkansas surgical black. It is a very slow stone. Oil tends to clog the pores. Use it with water, rinse well after use for best results.

JimmyH-AD · 10-04-2008, 05:35 PM

In another thread Howard @ theperfectedge.com said that he has used oven cleaner with excellent results to remove oil from stones.

joke1176 · 10-04-2008, 06:11 PM

I have a surgical black Ark. and I can't seem to get a great edge off it. I tried slurry, no slurry, dry, wet, lather, soap&water....

I guess if it was the only hone you had it would be OK, but it sure cuts slow and rough for a razor hone.

Kees · 10-05-2008, 11:51 AM

Or boil in bicarbonate of soda if you want to remove a greasy residue.

Neil Miller · 10-14-2008, 12:57 AM

I have a translucent Arkansas - gives a great polish. I don't think it is much different to a hard black arkansas (the "True hard" rather than the hard black) maybe just a bit finer. Lapping it though - oh my aching arm! That is one dense stone! It hasn't needed lapping since that time, and probably never will. Very slow in action. Light oil is preferred by carpenters, etc, as it keeps the metal filings suspended better than water. It has been recommended that they can be cleaned by putting them in a dishwater - never tried it, though!

chee16 · 10-14-2008, 04:22 AM

i'd really like to get a translucent arkansas but they aren't cheap. i paid $26 for my black arkansas and it looks like the translucents aretwice that. we'll see. i am still pondering a norton starter set so i may just save up and skip the translucent.