Western culture! How fortunate we are!

JMS · 08-20-2008, 07:50 AM

Ok, I changed my mind and decided to post! I consider you all my friends and decided I wanted to share with all of you!
So, here it is! I hope you will post!

I have recently had one of those moments that I get now and then! You know! The kind that slap you upside the head to remind you of how good we all have it here in many of the western cultures!
I was reading a news article on the faces of Pakistani women who had their faces melted half off by acid for no better reason than their suitor was rejected in a marriage proposal. These things do not happen where I live, At least, They are the exception and not the rule! The next article I read was a story about how the Russian army was taking everything that was not nailed down in Georgia as they invaded! It reminded me of the fact that war is about Killing people, breaking things, raping and pillaging! Every other nation understands this, but the west, and particularly the United States of America has avoided the raping and pillaging part of war! In fact, America along with a handful of other nations went contrary to the rule of war, which states that to the victor goes the spoils, and instead rebuilt the countries that they pummeled! In general, these countries that we pummeled in war were not crushed so that we may take whats theirs and make it ours, no, on the contrary, we went to war with these countries to wrest the power out of the hands of a dictator or brutal regime and hand the power back to the people where it belongs!
These things are what make me proud to be an American! These things remind me that we live in a very special and fragile bubble in history that deserves our protection! We should enjoy this brief respite in history where a large percentage of us consider that there are ideals greater than our own selves rather than the selfish and hedonistic world that once was, and surely will be again if we don't take pains to protect this bubble in history!

Please add what you see that makes the western culture so great, and where you see that we might need to make adjustments!
One area that I see we need to make adjustments is we need to complain less about our country and do more for our country!

Speak specifically of your own country or of western culture as a whole please!
This is not intended as a pi ssing contest as to who is the better nation, so please, don't make it as such!

Mark Avery

WireBeard · 08-20-2008, 08:16 AM

I must disagree that the US helped these countries "because we were nice folks." The Marshall plan had one purpose: the rebuilding of Western Europe to prevent it falling under the influence of the Soviet Union.

The US may have a better track record than some other countries when it comes to the Geneva Convention and following the rules of war, but we are by no means without problems. The Union Army stripped the South bare during the Civil War; the US military engaged in what would today be termed ethnic cleansing in relation to the Native Americans; US troops in Germany and Japan retruning home with "souvenirs" that just happen to turnout to be priceless art works or treasures from the occupied countries; the massacre at Mi Lai in Vietnam hurt support for the war in the US, and then we have recent events such as Abu Ghraib in Iraq, and the US soldiers who raped a girl and then murdered the entire family to cover it up.

It is not just the US that is Western. German culture is Western, but produced the Nazis; Belgium is Western but the atrocities in the Congo shocked the world; France is Western but ask in Algeria how they behaved.....

These issues are more about leadership and respect for human dignity than about any one culture.....when the leadership is poor or ethically corrupt, it trickles down the chain of command.

If a policy of humanity, professionalism, and adherence to international law is establish from the start, coupled with swift, impartial punishment for violations, then the occurances of abuses should be lessened....but you can never tell when it comes to human nature.

You must strike a balance.....

Justice without Mercy is Tyranny; Mercy without Justice is Anarchy

JMS · 08-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Thank you for your post Wirebeard!

Now, do we have anyone who believes that beyond the problems of their nation, there is something worthwhile about their nation?

chief · 08-20-2008, 08:23 AM

I have to aggree with Wirebeard here

I ain't pointing fingers, my country indeed hasn't got a clean sheet either.
We all have black spots on pur history. He who is without sin ...

JMS · 08-20-2008, 08:33 AM

Is it possible that there is someone who believes that there is something good about their country?
The question I ask is not what is bad or wrong about our nations, but what is right! I guess the new question I have is, if you don't see anything worthwhile in western culture, or your own nation, why don't you go some where else, or at least give us your idea of what would be a perfect nation? Maybe you too could conquer a nation and make it perfect in your eyes!

LX_Emergency · 08-20-2008, 09:31 AM

Hahaha, sorry for me laughing Gugi, but it seems your thread is going sour. (laughing with you, not at you)

Me +'s in western culture?

- Indoor Plumbing
- The priviledge of walking down the street in even the "bad" neighbourhoods in my town and not having to worry.
- Being able to find and supply my family with everything we need and more.
- Being able (within reason and with reason) to speak my mind on pretty much any topic I like with any opinion I feel is right.
- Being able to have picked my wife myself.
- Talking to my parents as if they're people and not just authority figures that have kept me down all my life.

And those are just a few.

Bruno · 08-20-2008, 10:03 AM

Personally, I like our modern comforts, the fact that me and my wife have good jobs that we enjoy, close to home, and the fact that civil war or invasion are very unlikely.

FiReSTaRT · 08-20-2008, 02:56 PM

What I love about Canada is that our multiculturalism made racism and ethnic discrimination akin to bad breath or b.o. Having come from a country torn by a couple of civil wars, I've seen people leave all that crap behind and ex-Yugoslav parties attended by Serbs, Croats, Jews and Muslims. After more than 14 years of living in Canada, I've only been reprimanded for speaking Serbian in public once and that was by a drunken hooker, at the tail end of her "career." Multi-racial couples are fairly common here and nobody bats an eye-lash at'em. When I see images from other countries where people get assaulted over their ethnicity, tribe, religion, the race of the person they are dating or the language they speak in public, I'm filled with gratitude for living here.

jockeys · 08-20-2008, 03:03 PM

I am lucky to live in a land where most people (well, used to be most... might only be some now) realize that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants." (Thomas Jefferson)

kevint · 08-20-2008, 03:37 PM

The most valuable and unique idea to stem from western culture is the recognition of the individual as...
unique and valuable

gssixgun · 08-20-2008, 03:52 PM

Jeez Mark this thread is so good, that even I am going to post on it....

I don't know who said this maybe somebody else can tell us, but I have always remembered it "There is only on true way to judge any Nation, if you open the borders, are people rushing to get in, or are they rushing to get out"
That statement says it all in my eyes......

JMS · 08-20-2008, 03:54 PM

Alright!! I see we are all getting the idea!

Hey Alex, I'm not gugi. He's my arch nemeses!

Russel Baldridge · 08-20-2008, 04:24 PM

Civil liberties.

Right to a fair and speedy trial.

Freedom of speech.

There are countless others, I really feel for people who cannot make decisions about how to live their own lives or speak out about injustices for fear of persecution. (The US isn't perfect in this respect either, but better than most)

I have a family friend who can never set foot in mainland China (she was born and raised in Taiwan), for fear of being locked up by the government with no trial and no notice to her family because of the books she's written on womens rights that criticize the authorities. They have a list of "enemies of the state" or something.

China celebrates "International Woman's Day" by giving every woman in the country a box of laundry detergent.

icedog · 08-20-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

...the United States of America has avoided the raping and pillaging part of war!

Mark Avery

Mark,

I agree with most of what you say. I am grateful to have by the luck of the draw been born in the USA. So grateful that I spent four years of my life defending this great nation. However, I don't believe you are so naive as to believe what you wrote here. The United States of America has most certainly done its share of raping and pillaging.

Brad

Silver · 08-20-2008, 05:31 PM

I am lucky enough to have been born in the western world, where thankfully women are treated as equals (in most cases). Women get a really raw deal in other parts of the globe due to religious, tribal or government influence.

I'm glad I live in a country where I can pick my own spouse, pick my own career, learn to drive, be educated to the level I choose, vote and have the choice to wear what I want.

JMS · 08-20-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedog

Mark,

I agree with most of what you say. I am grateful to have by the luck of the draw been born in the USA. So grateful that I spent four years of my life defending this great nation. However, I don't believe you are so naive as to believe what you wrote here. The United States of America has most certainly done its share of raping and pillaging.

Brad

Not as a standing policy, or an accepted behavior! But thats not the point of this thread! There are so many things we have to be grateful for, but instead, their are many among us who would prefer to whine about the negatives in our society and point fingers incessantly! Lets not do that! Instead, let us find the good that must be protected!

nun2sharp · 08-20-2008, 05:36 PM

Let us find the good that must be protected! Amen brother Mark, great thread!

icedog · 08-20-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Not as a standing policy, or an accepted behavior! But thats not the point of this thread! There are so many things we have to be grateful for, but instead, their are many among us who would prefer to whine about the negatives in our society and point fingers incessantly! Lets not do that! Instead, let us find the good that must be protected!

One of the good things to be protected is the right of the people to speak up or "whine" if you will about the wrongs done and/or accepted and/or condoned by an imperfect government. I know nothing about "incessant" finger pointing but it seems like one should keep his/her eyes open to the reality of every situation. If I am not mistaken it is the whining and finger pointing of the founding fathers of this great nation that caused its formation and ultimate freedom from tyranny.

JMS · 08-20-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedog

One of the good things to be protected is the right of the people to speak up or "whine" if you will about the wrongs done and/or accepted and/or condoned by an imperfect government. I know nothing about "incessant" finger pointing but it seems like one should keep his/her eyes open to the reality of every situation. If I am not mistaken it is the whining and finger pointing of the founding fathers of this great nation that caused its formation and ultimate freedom from tyranny.

Agreed, but they actually acted on their beliefs instead of just complaining and grumbling!

And now...back to our regularly scheduled topic!

WireBeard · 08-20-2008, 06:45 PM

As for great things about the US....

I would have to say the the single greatest contribution of the US to the world would be The Constitution.

Have you ever wondered why other countries who became republics after the US and may have used our Constitution as a starting point have not had the same success?

I was once asked by some Russian friends why the US fared so much better than Russia with regard to the Constitutions and their role in everyday life....I told them that the US has the laws in place to enforce the Constitution and the most US citizens (regardless of how little they know of what it contains) respect the document and what it stands for.