[jimmyseymour]

Well Ron Paul introduced a bill to abolish the federal reserve. hr 2755 ih.

www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-2755

[Whiskers]

Talk about going backwards ...sheesh ...

My mattress could use a fluffing ... lol...

[denmason]

Most Americans probably still believe that the Great Depression was caused by “the failure of the free-enterprise system.” It is a false belief. The truth is that the worst economic disaster in American history was caused by the Federal Reserve. Give current Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke credit for publicly acknowledging that fact in a speech delivered in 2002. Throughout the ages, the favorite political trick for public officials has been to dole out “free benefits” to the citizenry and engage in expensive foreign military adventures without raising taxes. To accomplish this feat, they have simply resorted to the printing press to get the money to pay for the “free benefits” and the military adventures. As more money was printed, its value would drop, which would be reflected in rising prices for the things that money buys. As prices rose, people would blame speculators, capitalists, price-gougers, and profiteers, never suspecting that their public officials were behind the scam.
That’s what the Fed has been doing for decades — accommodating ever-increasing government expenditures by printing the money to pay for them. That’s why the value of the dollar has been plummeting ever since the 1930s. It’s also why U.S. coins are now made of cheap alloys rather than of gold and silver. As the value of precious metals rose in response to an ever-depreciating currency, the value of the precious metals in coins became greater than the face value of the coins, encouraging people to hoard the coins or even melt them down for the metal. That’s what Gresham’s Law in economics is all about — that bad money (i.e., depreciating money) inevitably drives good money out of circulation.
For decades, U.S. officials made it a felony offense for Americans to own gold. Why did they do that? To prevent Americans from protecting themselves from a constantly depreciating currency. Equally important, the price of gold has always been an easy way to gauge what politicians are doing to the money. They have never liked that.
What the Fed has done to our money over the decades should not surprise anyone. After all, the Federal Reserve is nothing more than a central-planning agency in the classic socialist mold. Just like the central-planning boards in the Soviet Union and communist China, the Fed is composed of a central board of bureaucratic appointees planning, in a top-down fashion, complex monetary matters affecting millions of economic participants under constantly changing conditions. Given the inherent defects of socialist central planning, why would anyone expect anything but bad and perverse results from monetary central planning?
As Friedman and Hayek and other free-market economists (most notably Ludwig von Mises) pointed out, the Federal Reserve is the prime destroyer of currency and, therefore, one of the greatest threats to the freedom and well-being of a citizenry. As the monetary crisis facing our country continues to worsen, it’s important that we keep in mind that there is only one long-term solution — the one advocated by people such as Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and Nobel Laureates Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek: Abolish the Fed.

[Purvis]

Very well put. The odd part of this is that since there are not to many folks around anymore that were alive when all this happened it creates a gap to the ones around today in truly understanding and or believing that this is truth. Unfortunatly this is construde as conspiricy theory and or hog wash until the reality of this situation changes. A catch 22 if you will.

Sean

[hoglahoo]

I'll bet Andrew Jackson would have thought we'd have this figured out by now

[jimmyseymour]

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I'll bet Andrew Jackson would have thought we'd have this figured out by now

We probably would have but american idol was on, we found out paris had a sex tape, brittney was shaving her head, you know ground breaking news and stuff kept us distracted.

[nun2sharp]

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I'll bet Andrew Jackson would have thought we'd have this figured out by now

Andy must be spinning in his grave! God how I wish we could get him back.

[thebigspendur]

As much as I agree with denmason when it comes to monetary policy I can't agree about the causes of the depression. To just blame the fed is a gross oversimplification. Really if you stop and think about it, many of the protections in place today were absent back then. Without those protections today I think we could be looking at a real economic catastrophe and the same thing would have happened. Back then the economy was roaring and everyone was investing in the stock market. Little guys had their life savings in it and big guys were wheeling and dealing like now. Another bubble, and it burst and they lost it all. Just that then there was no FDIC and other regulations so when the banks failed everyone lost all their money and it just mushroomed causing widespread panic and additional runs on banks who couldn't pay their depositors. The only thing that really saved this country economically speaking was WWll. Absent that who knows what would have happened.

Just think about it if today people really lost confidence and made a run on all the banks do you think the fed could really repay every American and bail out every bank. I don't think so.

[denmason]

In the great depression of the 30's, the Federal Reserve made money scarce by pulling it in. This was after an increase of the interest rates and then a dropping of the interest rates. Between 1929 and 1933 the Feds shrank the money supply by 1/3. If you do enough research you will find that there has been quite a bit of muscle flexing by the World bankers and the Feds to show governments just who IS really in control. So, just to whet your appetites, here's a link to a PDF file, Great Myths of the Great Depression. http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf
It's a quick easy read of 16 pages.

[maplemaker]

Originally Posted by jimmyseymour

We probably would have but american idol was on, we found out paris had a sex tape, brittney was shaving her head, you know ground breaking news and stuff kept us distracted.

WHAT?? Brittney shaved her head? Where was I? I have to run, I've to shave my head!!!
You're right, though. The masses, indeed, tend to be asses.

[denmason]

The Federal Reserve System is the problem. Congress never had, nor has, the authority as Ben Bernanke said to "delegate the authority to coin and issue currency and set the value therein" to them. The Federal Reserve System should be abolished. We the people should have the control of our own currency, not a private cartel of bankers that don't live in America. The Bail out is no more than a criminal act by this administration in coordination with the Federal Reserve Banks. If this bill passes, it surely proves that there is no more government of the people for the people by the people. Let's band together and demand the removal of the Federal Reserve Act and their interest collection fee called the Federal Income Tax. No more!

[maplemaker]

1865 essentially ended any hope we had of a government of, for, and by the people. No, that's not a comment in favor of slavery.

[denmason]

In 1913, at 11:45 p.m., on the eve of Christmas, a group of powerful men came together to form a private corporation, designed to control the monetary system of our country. They moved with a calculated craftiness and deceit to pass legislation that would enslave every American as a debtor to their corporation. Unless you know the chicanery of how the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, unless you understand the central banking system that runs almost all the countries of the world and their history of manipulation, deceit, deception, and distortion, you will not be able to hear, see, and understand what is happening under your nose. In July, Congress gave Hank Paulson a blank check, with his promised that he would not use it unless he needed to. Congress went home for summer recess and Paulson found a reason to use it; rescue Fannie and Freddie to the tune of $5.3 Trillion.
What do you think is going to happen when they get the new Resolution Trust Corporation and their hands on the purse of America? We will have several days of peace in the market and then the pattern will start all over again because the next project is to pass the Treasury's Blueprint For A Modernized Financial Regulatory System, The Blueprint is designed to transfer to the Federal Reserve, power over all savings and loans, credit unions, thrifts, state chartered banks, the entire insurance industry, mortgage industry, the U.S. Payment and Settlement System, and to make the Federal Reserve the Market Stability Regulator. Following this current round of volatility, we can expect more peaceful days in the market then, bang! The attack will shift to the personal savings, 401Ks, pension plans, and commercial mortgages. This is a complete restructuring of the American economy around the Federal Reserve. At this point, congress will be rendered powerless because they chose to "get it done fast" and voted away ALL of their power.
Let me give you an example of unbridled power. It is called "Market based Democracy." It was at a Group of Seven Finance Ministers meeting in Florida that then Treasury Secretary John Snow used the phrase "market based democracy." After doing a fair amount of research, I realized that Wall Street had transferred all tangibles into the bond, stock, commodities, or currency market. There is not one investment or asset that we own that cannot change in value due to markets, trends, or the power of the market. If you remember the Asian Currency Crisis, the currencies of five Asian countries fell to horrendous lows when they refused to sign on to the World Trade Organization Financial Services Agreement. To punish them, their currencies were sold. So much for thinking your savings and purchasing power were safe. The banks have made out like bandits. They have not retained ANY risk for the loans they make. If they make a mortgage, they can sell it on the secondary mortgage market and then that mortgage can be packaged into tranches and sold to investors worldwide; if you have an auto loan or credit card debt, it too can be sold to investors in the form of bonds; if you have certificates of deposit, they can be sold to money market funds or through brokerage firms, etc. What I am pointing out is that the system is already in place whereby the value of any asset can drop substantially and without warning because of market-based democracy. We have no control whatsoever.
Once the Federal Reserve is given unbridled power over all the valuables of America, like a pirate they will seize whatever they can, for whatever reason and we will have absolutely no recourse-that is unless YOU ARE WILLING TO STAKE YOUR SACRED FORTUNE FOR THE FREEDOM OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN AND FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO HAVE STOPPED LOOKING AT AMERICA FOR ANSWERS WHEN WE ARE THE PRIME REASON FOR THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD.
LET US BREAK THE HOLD AND BONDAGE THAT THE FEDERAL RESERVE HAS ON AMERICA! LET US DO WHAT WILSON, ROOSEVELT, TRUMAN, EISENHOWER, KENNEDY, JOHNSON, NIXON, FORD, CARTER, REAGAN, BUSH l, CLINTON, AND BUSH II have not done. LET US CALL FOR THE BREAKING OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BY SAYING NO. We then absolve ourselves of the $51.9T which is owed to the Federal Reserve. What freedom. We will be dirt poor but we will have overcome a noose around the neck of every American citizen. This is really OUR MOMENT OF OPPORTUNITY TO SET AMERICA FREE FROM BONDAGE!!! Lastly, vote out your current Congressman or Senator if they vote for the proposed bailout. If we fail in convincing our lawmakers, then after the Blueprint is passed we can expect a new currency, the Amero and a 50% devaluation of the dollar as it is merged with Canada, Mexico and other countries in this hemisphere. If that is not enough, the coming tax on services to pay for all the bailouts will add to our misery. Will you be able to afford or stay in your home then? It will be too late. Now is the time to BREAK THE BANK!

[maplemaker]

Could not have said it better myself. I was watching an interview with Vicente Fox after he left the presidency of Mexico and heard him let slip that he and King Gerorge II had been working on border disintegration to create a North American answer to the EU. He said it in passing, as an explanation to an answer he was giving to a question on a quasi-related topic and was subtle about it. The interviewer didn't pick up on it. I strongly believe that the only way this can happen is for us to be devalued. Now, the very thought makes me vomit in my mouth a little bit, but for it to happen, America can't be so disparate with Mexico, the huge differences in ecomnomy won't allow it. American propping of tinpot criminals in the Mexican government has created a tradition that won't allow Mexio to climb up, so Amercia must be brought down. To qoute from Ferris Bueller, I weep for the future. The worst part of the whole mess, past and present is we have no one to blame but ourselves. We've bounced all over the whole world like the Lords of creation fixing this, demanding that, and feeding egos of nothing more than politicians (ewwwww) instead of keeping ourselves to ourselves and simply inviting anyone who wants to participate in freedom and peace to play on a level playing field. I've lived under a dictatorship, and I've seen the difference. In the name of globalization, we are slowly but surely moving in the same direciton. BTW, the First amendment has been suspended in St. Louis. Think it can't happen here? It's already started...
Now, no more, because it gets me too angry.

[Hutch]

That is an over simplification.

Monetary policies between now and the Great depression are vastly different.

During the Great Depression the currency was backed by a gold standard, thus every time you printed more currency the value would be less, unless there was more gold to back the currency.

Now we have a fiat currency, which basically means the money has no actual intrinsic value other than the government's order (fiat) that the currency must be accepted as payment. It's a credit based monetary system, with the central bank (the government) being the creditor.

[hoglahoo]

I could have sworn that it became illegal to own gold when FDR took the throne- er, I mean took office