[WireBeard]

So...the first debate is over.

What did you think and why?

Remember, the title of this thread is opinions. They can be positive or negative, but please support your opinion with an explanation and no denigrating or dismissing the opinions of others that may not hold your views nor making personal attacks.

I watched the debates and am more frustrated than before...I think we are in trouble regardless of who wins. McCain seems to pride himself on ****ing people off and Obama seems to want everyone to be his friend.

I thought the mentioning of the memorial bracelets was a cheap ploy by both candidates. McCain needs to stop milking his veteran status - we all know your were a POW and are a veteran...you have out respect. Now, how are you going to fix the mess we are in economically, politically, and internationally?

Obama seemed to be speaking in sounds bites.

Both candidates switched into double-speak when the topic of the bail out came up. Both made good points about accountability for Wall Street and the parasite executives.

On Foreign Policy, both made good points, but McCain seems to just be beliigerent in general, while Obama seems to be indecisive.

This past year, I have read the biographies of John Adams, Harry Truman, and Abraham Lincoln. While informative and inspiring, in thinking about where we are now, these books were also a source of sadness, rage, and frustration. I see our nation careening down the road with out anyone at the wheel, while those who are supposed to be looking out for our interests are lining their pockets and those of their friends. The politics of fear and blame have taken the place of informed debate - instead of being told what we can do to help the nation, politians spend their time telling us whom to blame, that it isn't our fault, and if we elect them, it will all be better. Issues take the back seat to school yard bullying and name calling. Party platforms have become nothing more than far mongering: Vote for us or the terrorists are going to win! Vote for us or you will lose your SUV! Vote for us or they greedy companies will take all your pensions! Vote for us or the gays will get you! Vote for us or they'll start monitoring your emails! Vote for us! Don't vote for them!

After the end of the Cold War, the US had the opportunity to make the beacon of Liberty and Justice shine brighter than ever; instead, we have become just another bullying nation - Nelson off of "The Simpsons".

Instead of promoting democracy and liberty, we promoted whichever cause lined corporate pockets (more so than ever before) and did not even make a pretense of diplomacy....our foreign policy has always had flip-flops (pictures of Rumsfeld in Iraq with Hussein in the 80's...then Rumsfeld bombing Hussein in this decade)...but now we just laugh in the face of opposition and then act upset when other countries start to do the exact same thing (Russia). Why does the administration support Kosovo, but not S. Ossetia/Abkhazia? Hmmm...could it be that if Georgia is our friend and controls these provinces, we get oil? The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline runs right through S. Ossetia and Abkhazia....

We are one of the few, if not the only nation where you can arrive and start calling yourself an "American". Out nation was built by immigrants from all over the world, all bringing their talents and desires here to achieve their dream of making it if you work hard enough...the pursuit of happiness - not the guarantee. The sweat of your brow and the strength of your back. There has always been corruption, those who have get more and those who do not - do not....but here you had a chance. My family has been in North America since the 1630's. I can follow them westward from New England, Virginia, the Carolinas, into Ohio, Kentucky, then into Illinois. All working people, some formers, some professionals, some notable (Dr. Comfort Starr was one of the founders of Harvard), most not - just everyday people living their lives, serving their country in time of war, contributing through their labor.

Now, that all seems in jeopardy - and nothing I saw in tonight's debate gave me any hope that either of them have a clue as to what to do.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation."

John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
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"At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States
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"Experience has shown how deeply the seeds of war are planted by economic rivalry and social injustice"

"America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand."

Harry S. Truman, 33rd President of the United States

[Quick Orange]

I didn't get to watch all of it, but what I saw wasn't too promising. McCain sounded like he wanted to just start beating down every opposing nation's door if they didn't do what we want. Obama didn't say much that amounted to anything of actual content.

I will watch the entire thing though and make a more informed post later

[Brother Jeeter]

NEITHER candidate impressed me! There is a line (I believe it's from APOCALYPSE NOW) that I am afraid can be asked after January 20th. "Is there anybody in charge here?"
Personally I would score it, maybe 52-48 in favor of McCain. McCain was a little more solid on his answers, but Obama was pretty composed.
On the subject of the Bracelets, after McCain mentioned his, Obama seemed to flash his wrist and mutter, "I got a Bracelet too."
I was very underwhelmed with BOTH of them.

[JMS]

My impressions of the debate? It existed.

[gugi]

I think it was a good representation of both candidates. I am not sure why people expect a dramatic battle with a clear hero who crushes the other (evil) side and then saves the world, or at least America.

These are just two people both with strong and weak sides and in few months one of them will have the power to make a rather important decisions on policy.
None of them will be perfect and please everybody. As it's been said here countless of times, the government shouldn't and won't solve every problem.

I was not surprised at all by what I saw - it just reaffirmed my previous impressions of both.

There were plenty of cheap stupid shots, which I personally find a sign of very bad taste, as they indicate to me the person is considering me rather stupid. Nevertheless I think the viewpoints of both candidates, how they approach problems were pretty clear.

[JMS]

Originally Posted by gugi

I think it was a good representation to both candidates. I am not sure why people expect a dramatic battle with a clear hero who crushes the other (evil) side and then saves the world, or at least America.

I thought it was a fairly good representation also, but gugi, I don't think people are looking for a dramatic battle or a clear hero who crushes his opponent! I think what they are looking for is someone who is speaking from their heart! Someone who believes what he is saying and not just pandering to their base constituency! Someone who has a little passion and doesn't appear to be practiced!

[gugi]

Well, that's a rather subjective and very emotional evaluation. I don't think that this is a particularly valuable trait, especially in a politician. (For example from old archival footage it seems to me that Hitler was extremely passionate and speaking from his heart - I don't know much but he seems he may have been a very good inspiring leader, but that doesn't mean that all his policies were good.)

I didn't get an impression that any of the two candidates is dishonest and saying something they don't believe in, only so that they can please somebody else. We can talk forever about politics and political system, but my impression is indeed that people tend to idolize the past leaders and demonize the current ones.
As I said there was plenty of pandering, but they did present two very distinct frameworks of how they approach the problems and what they presented tonight was consistent with my previous impressions.

[mhailey]

Here is my transcript of the debate:

Mr. McCain: "blah blah blah, with some more blah blah blah, and i was a POW"

Mr. Obama: "I have to respond to that with some blah blah blah, and my blah blah blah is change."

Mr. McCain: "Your blah blah sucks, but my blah blah is awesome."

Mr. Obama: "Change with some Blah Blah, and more Blah Blah when it comes to international stuff."

Mr. McCain: "My Blah Blah has experience."

Mr. Obama: "My blah blah is sexy and have I said it before but Blah Blah for change."

Moderator: "Thank you both and good night."




Matt

[Doc]

never heard it summed up better!

[fpessanha]

Originally Posted by mhailey

Here is my transcript of the debate:

Mr. McCain: "blah blah blah, with some more blah blah blah, and i was a POW"

Mr. Obama: "I have to respond to that with some blah blah blah, and my blah blah blah is change."

Mr. McCain: "Your blah blah sucks, but my blah blah is awesome."

Mr. Obama: "Change with some Blah Blah, and more Blah Blah when it comes to international stuff."

Mr. McCain: "My Blah Blah has experience."

Mr. Obama: "My blah blah is sexy and have I said it before but Blah Blah for change."

Moderator: "Thank you both and good night."


Matt

Simply briliant...

[Nord Jim]

I tend to agree with the polls on this. CNN's were pretty interesting, if you haven't seen them. Polls this morning and last night appear to show an Obama victory. It was based on several factors.

1. Demeanor. Obama was composed and spoke directly to the camera. McCain never engaged either the camera or Obama himself. This made him look shifty and unfocused, and Obama look focused and presidential. McCain did look directly at the pundits in the audience, which is perhaps why they reacted better to him than the viewers. But it doesn't play with women, who demand eye contact and who reacted negatively by a wide margin. It should be noted that on NBC, at least, whenever McCain began doing truly weird things, like grimacing, squinting, or muttering, the director went to an Obama-only shot. Didn't have to do that with Obama.

2. Obama hit the bracelet exchange out of the park. "Make sure no mother has to go through what I'm going through" and "No American soldier ever dies in vain" were brilliant.

3. McCain spoke only of the past, while Obama spoke of the future. It made McCain seem like he's still more engaged with Vietnam, not the present.

4. Respondents said that Obama came off as better prepared to deal with the financial crisis.

5. McCain never mentioned the middle class once. Obama did several times.

6. "What would you cut to deal with the financial crisis?" was a stupid question, and the moderator's insistence on getting a definitive answer was annoying. Neither candidate would or could answer it, but I thought that McCain did slightly better.

7. McCain's "gotcha" style was annoying, and mainly didn't work. His repetition of the phrase "what the Senator doesn't understand" (which I'm sure his handlers drilled into him to use at every opportunity) was more than blunted by Obama's responses which proved that he did understand.

Overall, men were about evenly split on the debate, but women were overwhelmingly more impressed with Obama. As far as changing impressions, the poll I saw said that 34% felt their impression of Obama had improved -- they said he came off as far more prepared and ready than they had expected -- and 21% felt that their impression of McCain had improved. People whose impressions had worsened for the two men similarly favored Obama.

Myself? I felt that Obama was kind of doing a rope-a-dope. He doesn't want to seem too confrontational. Some say that he's aware that if he does that too strongly, he can come off as an angry black man. It's an inherent disadvantage he has in the campaign.

Can't wait for Palin.

j

[sicboater]

The Fact check. I like the way the Annanberg foundation handles this too:

FactCheck.org: FactChecking Debate No. 1

[WireBeard]

I love mhaily's summary...better than a CNN ticker!

[WireBeard]

Nicely put, Nord Jim. I did notice McCain making a lot of faces (as did the NBC commentators, saying he looked like Obama "annoyed" him in some way) and not looking at the camera, I also noticed he looked down and to the side when answering. While not definitive, facial expressions like this can be viewed as being deceptive or concealing. McCain also seemed to be fiddling with stuff on his podium a lot and had trouble with some of the foreign names.

Obama missed several opportunities to drive points home and stumbled when pressed by the moderator to get back to the crux of the question at hand. He also seemed to press his lips together while listening to McCain, reminding me of a sock-puppet.

Neither one impressed me.

The VP debate should be entertaining, given how Palin has been sequested, which still has not kept her from making gaffs during interviews. Her interview with Katie Couric was even worse than the first one (how can you not do well being interviewed by Katie Couric...that's like being interviewed by Mary Poppins?) I still do not understand how living in a state close to Russia equals foreigh policy experience...

[norman931]

Interesting comments, guys! I watched the whole debate, but paid little attention to where the candidates eyes were facing. I did notice that Obama called McCain "John," while McCain usually addressed the other as "Senator Obama." McCain seemed contemptuous of his opponent. Obama repeatedly connected McCain to President Bush, while McCain zinged the "L word."
I thought it was a pretty good debate, and remain impressed by both candidates.
Looking forward to the Biden / Palin debate.

[nun2sharp]

Riding around town this morning with my brother in law I noticed that with only a month to go there are very few signs in peoples yards advocating one candidate versus the other, I am taking this as an indication of the general populations disgust with the options provided by the two parties this election cycle. Hopefully they will turn out at the polling places anyway and vote for the independents.

[Hutch]

Originally Posted by norman931

McCain seemed contemptuous of his opponent. Obama repeatedly connected McCain to President Bush, while McCain zinged the "L word."

I thought it was a pretty good debate, and remain impressed by both candidates.
Looking forward to the Biden / Palin debate.

I never heard McCain call Obama a Lesbian?

I too can't wait for the VP debate, if it's anything like the Palin interview it should be great, theater of the absurd, lets see how many talking points we can string together.

[gugi]

Apparently the debate doesn't even matter - the only important thing is who won it. Completely ridiculous.

Oh, and it looks like McCain won it before he even said he will participate. I wonder if he was as responsible as Gen. Eisenhower to make two ads, just in case he didn't win it.

[Nord Jim]

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Riding around town this morning with my brother in law I noticed that with only a month to go there are very few signs in peoples yards advocating one candidate versus the other, I am taking this as an indication of the general populations disgust with the options provided by the two parties this election cycle. Hopefully they will turn out at the polling places anyway and vote for the independents.

People I know who are trying to get Obama signs are still waiting. I think the first batches are going to battleground states, which mine isn't

I've also heard that the presidential campaigns aren't spending as much on lawn signs as they used to. Lawn signs are considered useful for a school board candidate who wants some sort of name recognition, but presidential candidates seem to expect that you'll at least know who they are.

Sorry to continue the off-topic, but I didn't think we needed a whole new thread on lawn signs.

If anyone disagrees, by all means, have at it.

j

[thebigspendur]

I don't think we need waste money on debates. I think peoples minds are either already made up or made up for th