[bbshriver]

As I recall we have several gunophiles here. Some of you may have seen the new Ruger LCP (i would post a link but I'm at work, and anything categorized as "weapons" is blocked). It is a small (palm sized) .380 auto, similar to Keltec P3AT for those of you who know.

I have a bit over $150 in Cabelas credit plus a Kel-Tec P32, so I got on the waiting list at cabelas a few weeks ago, and got a call today that it's in!!! Hopefully going to go pick it up tonight

[Navaja]

It could make good carry gun for it's small print and light weight.
I personally don't like light hand guns because of the increased recoil.
I've tried S&W .38 aluminum frame and the vibration on your hand from the recoil makes it very unconfortable, specially not suitable for a lady.
YMHO

Good luck w/ your new toy and let us know how does it shoot.

[sensei_kyle]

My father has a concealed carry permit, and showed me a review in a magazine. I know he'd like to have one. The two Ruger 22's (10/22 rifle & a bull barrel target pistol) I own have been great weapons over the years. Very reliable, even after hundreds of rounds of target practice.

[Hawkeye5]

I saw a review on them somewhere. I have a Sig .380 so I'm good for smaller carry autos. I'm not overly impressed with .380 stopping power, but they are a whole bunch better than throwing rocks. About the only handgun round most people can handle that is a consistent stopper is the .45ACP. But my full size Kimber is too big for daily summer carry.

[jnich67]

This may be a really dumb question and perhaps a bit off topic, but what is the difference between a 9mm and .380? Is one larger, more powerful, etc.?


Jordan

[sensei_kyle]

Originally Posted by jnich67

This may be a really dumb question and perhaps a bit off topic, but what is the difference between a 9mm and .380? Is one larger, more powerful, etc.?


Jordan

Not dumb or off-topic.

9mm is a more powerful round than .380.

[cannonfodder]

A 380 Auto and 9mm Lugar use the same diameter bullet, 0.365 but the cartridge is quite a bit different, 0.374 diameter and 0.680 long for the 380 auto and the 9mm luger uses a 0.391 diameter at 0.754 long. That extra cartridge size does two things, it keeps someone from dropping a 9mm into a 380 chamber and killing themselves, it also lets you pack in more powder and use a longer and heavier bullet. The 380 using a 100 grain bullet on the heavy end of the scale and the 9mm a 147 at the same extreme.

For a comparison, a 100 grain bullet in a 380 will run an average of say a high 800 FPS while the 9mm will push the same 100 grain pullet at a mean velocity of 1300FPS. That gives you a substantially higher ballistic coefficient which translates to stopping power.

Now for the down side, felt recoil is a factor of weight and energy. The more energy you produce, the heavier that bullet and the lighter the frame, the higher the felt recoil. So if you take a light 380 frame with a light 88 grain bullet chucking along at 970 FPS you will get relatively light recoil with much lower stopping power. But if you take that same 380 frame and stuff a 100 grain bullet in it chucking out at 1000 FPS your felt recoil will be substantially larger due to the heavier bullet but the trade off is more energy and stopping power. The same 100 grain bullet in a heavier framed 9mm firing at a somewhat anemic 1000fps would have substantially lighter recoil due the increased weight of the frame.

We do the same thing in sporting clays. You have two ways of reducing your felt recoil, aside bionic stocks. Add a recoil reducer, which is essentially a weight you put in butt stock or you shoot a 1 ounce instead of a 1 1/8 ounce load. To make a big difference you can add weight to the shotgun and shoot a lower weight shot charge for an exponential drop in recoil.

What does all this rambling boil down to; a 380 with a full house load will kick much harder than a similar load in a 9mm. Another thing you should factor in, in low light, the higher powder charge in a stubby conceal carry pistol will give you a big fireball, muzzle flash. That can make the second shot a spray and pray affair because you cannot see for several seconds after the flash.

You would be best off with a lighter caliber that you can control than a heavy caliber that you wince with when squeezing the trigger because of recoil anticipation. You just have to try a few and see what fits your hand and works best. Personally, I have a high recoil tolerance so pounding out 45acp’s all day does not bother me. For me, I would go with a 357sig or 40S&W or tuck the P220 away somewhere. I would never go lighter than a 380 although there are smaller calibers out there like the 32 auto. They just don’t have the knock down power unless you place the shot properly. In a panic situation, you are going to be more prone to point and shoot than taking a timed and well aimed shot. The larger calibers give you more fudge factor, but even a 22 long rifle round will drop an assailant if properly placed.

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by cannonfodder

A 380 Auto and 9mm Lugar use the same diameter bullet, 0.365 but the cartridge is quite a bit different, 0.374 diameter and 0.680 long for the 380 auto and the 9mm luger uses a 0.391 diameter at 0.754 long. That extra cartridge size does two things, it keeps someone from dropping a 9mm into a 380 chamber and killing themselves, it also lets you pack in more powder and use a longer and heavier bullet. The 380 using a 100 grain bullet on the heavy end of the scale and the 9mm a 147 at the same extreme.

For a comparison, a 100 grain bullet in a 380 will run an average of say a high 800 FPS while the 9mm will push the same 100 grain pullet at a mean velocity of 1300FPS. That gives you a substantially higher ballistic coefficient which translates to stopping power.

Now for the down side, felt recoil is a factor of weight and energy. The more energy you produce, the heavier that bullet and the lighter the frame, the higher the felt recoil. So if you take a light 380 frame with a light 88 grain bullet chucking along at 970 FPS you will get relatively light recoil with much lower stopping power. But if you take that same 380 frame and stuff a 100 grain bullet in it chucking out at 1000 FPS your felt recoil will be substantially larger due to the heavier bullet but the trade off is more energy and stopping power. The same 100 grain bullet in a heavier framed 9mm firing at a somewhat anemic 1000fps would have substantially lighter recoil due the increased weight of the frame.

We do the same thing in sporting clays. You have two ways of reducing your felt recoil, aside bionic stocks. Add a recoil reducer, which is essentially a weight you put in butt stock or you shoot a 1 ounce instead of a 1 1/8 ounce load. To make a big difference you can add weight to the shotgun and shoot a lower weight shot charge for an exponential drop in recoil.

What does all this rambling boil down to; a 380 with a full house load will kick much harder than a similar load in a 9mm. Another thing you should factor in, in low light, the higher powder charge in a stubby conceal carry pistol will give you a big fireball, muzzle flash. That can make the second shot a spray and pray affair because you cannot see for several seconds after the flash.

You would be best off with a lighter caliber that you can control than a heavy caliber that you wince with when squeezing the trigger because of recoil anticipation. You just have to try a few and see what fits your hand and works best. Personally, I have a high recoil tolerance so pounding out 45acp’s all day does not bother me. For me, I would go with a 357sig or 40S&W or tuck the P220 away somewhere. I would never go lighter than a 380 although there are smaller calibers out there like the 32 auto. They just don’t have the knock down power unless you place the shot properly. In a panic situation, you are going to be more prone to point and shoot than taking a timed and well aimed shot. The larger calibers give you more fudge factor, but even a 22 long rifle round will drop an assailant if properly placed.

You're a reloader, aren't you.


John P.

[Photoguy67]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye5

I saw a review on them somewhere. I have a Sig .380 so I'm good for smaller carry autos. I'm not overly impressed with .380 stopping power, but they are a whole bunch better than throwing rocks. About the only handgun round most people can handle that is a consistent stopper is the .45ACP. But my full size Kimber is too big for daily summer carry.

If I may ask, why is a 45acp too large for summer carry? I carry a full size SA xd45, full size 1911 or a full size S&W 4506 all summer long with shorts, kilts, jeans or just what ever I happen to be in at the time with no problems whatsoever.
Photoguy67

[sensei_kyle]

I know with my build I couldn't conceal a full-sized 1911 if I wanted to. Besides, I'd have to buy a new 45. My SA competition rig is way too dialed in for anything but match loads.

[Photoguy67]

Maybe it is a build issue, I have a ummmm errrrr significant girth.
Photoguy67

[sensei_kyle]

I'm trying to reduce some of my girth before it becomes significant The first part of July a couple of buddies and I went on a backpacking trip to Colorado for 7 days. I wanted to see what my pack weighed, but my wife's scales want feet and not an object. So, I figured I'd weigh myself without the pack, then with the pack and do some subtraction. I was too shocked to do math. Problem is, it's so hot right now (and for at least the next month) it's hard to do anything outside.

[cannonfodder]

Nothing wrong with caring a full frame 45ACP. However, being vertically challenged, tucking that big frame away somewhere concealed would require a jacket. For me, a shorty 45 bucks a little too much. That sledgehammer of a bullet packs some kinetic energy. A lower caliber will also get you a few extra rounds in the mag. Most folks are not caring extra mags for their autos so having two extra rounds in the stack is a good thing in my book. God forbid you would ever need to use your weapon, but if you do hopefully you wont need more than two rounds.

And yes, I reload rifle, piston and shot shell.

[bbshriver]

Got it home last night. Does feel much better made than the Kel-Tec.

And yes, right now I have a Springfield 1911 Compact .45 on my hip.... and the Ruger in my pocket (in a leather pocket holster). But the Springfield is loaded, ****ed, locked and ready to rock, where the ruger is empty (breaking in the holster). Hoping to get out to shoot the Ruger tomorrow and see how it does.

[sensei_kyle]

I had a chance to handle one of these today. We have a great treasure in our system, a guy who is 78 and been doing judo since the mid 1940's, who comes to visit about once a month. He like compacts and prefers small calibers, .25, .32 & .380. This thing is freaking tiny! It easily fit totally in the palm of my hand. He had a couple of complaints. The first being the trigger. It's a double-action only weapon and has a lot of creep in the trigger. Second complain was when the slide rammed the next round home after firing, the force pressed down on the trigger guard causing some discomfot in the trigger finger. He did say the weapon performs like a champ, even for its small size. He place a magazine into an area under 3" at about 5 yards. My main complaint after handling the weapon is the sights. Sleek, low-profile which is great. Totally blacked out. I'd prefer a little color or outlining to make sight acquisition easier.

[bbshriver]

I'm getting ready to go try mine out now. I have heard the trigger finger complaint from a few others. We'll see how it works for me. The sights are definitely an issue, I might try to get some paint or something for them. Not sure why they left them plain.

Bad trigger/DAO is pretty much run of the mill in tiny guns like this. I'm a fan of the 1911 style SAO with manual safety but no outer safety does help to slick down the design a little which is important in the pocket gun segment.

[KenS]

Originally Posted by Photoguy67

Maybe it is a build issue, I have a ummmm errrrr significant girth.
Photoguy67

Interesting; I have a similar "girth", and when I was 100 pounds lighter it was much easier to carry.
Best regards, Ken.

[bbshriver]

I like to push my famous "patented blubber concealment system".. my "love handles" wrap around the gun and hide it!
Of course, I do have the occasional discomfort of the gun stabbing my side, but with the right holster and belt combo I'm pretty comfortable these days.

[Photoguy67]

Originally Posted by bbshriver

"patented blubber concealment system"..

I Love It!!!
Photoguy67

[bbshriver]

there's a silver lining behind every cloud!