[zepplin]

I just received the 16K Shapton Glass Plate last week. I have used it on two razors and I'd like to share this experience with you:

I 1st became aware of the Shapton Glass Ceramic sharpening system after reading 2Sharp's (bj) thread, "Shapton Glass", In Search of the Perfect Edge
Hey, if yer a honer, you've gotta read this one. I did, about three times. - a number of people are discovering that this system could be that carrot we've all been chasing, i.e., the title of bj's thread,....In Search of the Perfect edge. - Dr_Moss (Chris), gssixgun (Glen), Chrisl (Chris L.), just to name a few, besides Lynn.

Let me tell you what I've been using before the Shapton:
325 DMT (lapping), 12K DMT (for setting bevels), 4K Blue Belgium (polishing), 8K Yellow Belgium (Polishing), 12K Chinese (refinement of edge), Chromium Oxide Hanging Linen Strop (for Twlight Zone edge!)

Believe this has been a great system for me and I have been very, very successful at producing fantastic shavers. I don't suppose I have to justify why a I am reaching higher, we all know the answer to that question.

I bought the Shapton from http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!0000000.htm

No, I have not purchased the DGLP (Diamond Glass Lapping Plate). I made an inquiry with Shapton and asked if my 325 DMT would suffice. They assured me it would be okay. There is no doubt in my mind that the DGLP is, and would be, the best lapper, but for now, I will go with what I have in stock. I'm not that rich - and I have been spending way too much money lately.

The size of the plate is 2-3/4" x 8-1/4" x 7/32" (thick), a diamond ceramic material bonded to a piece of glass the same size. The grit size (16, 000), size in microns (.92), and the Shapton catalogue number (50303), can be read through the glass. I think this is good! The unit comes wrapped in clear plastic.

I removed the plastic and made my usual pattern of pencil marks, and proceeded to lap with my 325 DMT over the sink w/running water. I was a bit surprised it was not very flat. Pencil marks on both ends disappeared immediately, leaving the inside of the plate quite visible of pencil marks. The plate was quite dished in the middle. It took about twenty minutes of continuous lapping to complete the job.

I wanted to try the 16K on a couple of stubborn razors that I had just never been able to get the edge that I wanted. I had tried every trick I knew trying to get that edge to produce a good shave, to no avail. I ended up putting these two blades in a pile to work on in the future. I figured these two razors would be good test subjects for the Shapton.

My two razors: A Genco, Army Navy, 5/8, and a "Karbon King" Mfg, Co., Indiana, PA., 5/8. - The results of both these razors has been identical, therefor, I will treat both as one.

The bevel was pretty much established and had a minimum amount of scratches, in fact, the bevel looked excellent. I never could understand why it never shaved well. I 1st lapped it 50 times on my Yellow Belgium, until the edge felt very sticky (TPT). I then went to the 16k Shapton, spraying the top with distilled water, I did about 40 laps. It had a nice feel to it. I was very aware of the edge on the surface of the plate. After no more than 5 or 6 laps, I could see a faint hint of metal in the water. When done, I dried the blade, took it in the bathroom, did 25 laps on the Chromium Oxide pasted linen strop, cleaned the edge with alcohol, dried the edge with tissue, did 20 laps on the linen strop, and finished with 60 laps on leather. Time to shave.......

Shave results:

What has absolutely blown my mind is that I have gotten two of the closest shaves I have ever gotten, with only two passes each, on two run of the mill razors from Ebay that never did shave well for me. I normally will do a three pass shave every time. Both shaves took only two passes to produce absolute BBS everywhere. I am wondering what I am going to get when I touch up my Dubl Ducks, W&B, Taylor 1000, Filly, etc., etc.. (my really good razors)?

I have since ordered the Shapton Glass 1000, 4000, and the 8000. These will replace my DMT 12K lapping stone and my two Belgiums. The changing of the Guard! Do I need the 30, 000 plate @ $280.00? or the DGLP @ $289.00? It seems I can probably do without them, but will I?

I think that you can probably guess that between 1 - 10, I would give this product a 20!!!

I really am excited about this Shapton System; and I ask myself, "How could it get any better?"

Thanks,

Steve

[heavydutysg135]

Sounds really good! Right now I am really happy with my Coticules, Eschers, and Nakayamas but I would love to try one of those someday soon.

[dylandog]

Someone PLEASE come in here and say the Shapton 16K ain't all that. That it's no better than a good Y/G escher followed by chrome oxide.

I do not need yet another hone temptation.

[zepplin]

One comment, if I may:

I have never been lucky enough to find or even use an Escher stone. Mainly because I have only been in this str8 razor game for a little over a year. Unfortunately, during that time, those good quality Eschers that do come available on Ebay are very, very expensive.

You can try a 16, 000 Glass Shapton for $99.00 with no shipping charges at this time from Craftsman Studio.

I believe that's worth every penny, and then some.

We have all blown a lot more than that, feeding our acquisition disorders, and have gotten a lot less.

Steve

[Chris L]

Excellent review, Steve. Thanks for sharing your findings and being very descriptive with actual results. Unlike BJ, I also do not yet have the Shapton 30K. But......like you said, does that mean I won't get it sometime in the future?

To me, the Shapton 30K would strictly be for fun. I'm certain it performs, but by fun I mean just what you're describing, the Shapton 16K as the final stone is super. Do you NEED to go any higher? Absolutely not. But, fun is fun.

In the past, some had reported that honing on high grit Shaptons was like honing on honey. Very hard to hone and the razor would chatter across the stone. I have never yet had this problem with the 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 or 16000 ceramic on glass stones I own. I DO skew my blades a little for each stroke; meaning, my blades are always laid flat on the stones like they have to be, but rather than hone at a right angle down the stone, I tilt usually heel leading (sometimes I mix it up a bit and go toe leading for a few passes), by about 45 degrees. This is how woodworkers hone their chisels and plane irons and it does cut down on stiction issues if there were any. Prior to getting into Shaptons, I spent some time joining the Japanese style woodworking forum that is accessed through the www.shaptonstones.com website and asking the craftsman there about Shapton ceramic on glass, how they thought the stones would work for honing razors, and if they had negative stiction issues in honing their chisels and plane irons on those stones. They reported that the Shapton Pro-Series (not the ceramic on glass plates) were more prone to stiction.

Recently, I noticed that Joel from B&B commented negatively on Shapton stones citing the honing on honey sensation. I don't recall however if Joel has ever mentioned if he has any Shapton stones or more specifically ceramic on glass stones.

Steve, I'm really looking forward to further reviews from you as to how you feel the Shapton 4000 and 8000 grit ceramic stones perform for you.

If you have HAD........I do recommend that you hold on to your Belgian Blue and Yellow Coticule stones though! It's nice to have the naturals to be able to draw from.

I'll say also, I have yet to buy any stone of any kind (other than diamond plates) that did not need lapping prior to use and my Shaptons, like you've found, were no exception.

The black steel swarf really deposits quickly on the Shapton 16k, doesn't it? Best part: wipe it off under running water with a lint free cloth, rinse well and keep on honin'! I will rarely lap that stone.

Chris L

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by dylandog

Someone PLEASE come in here and say the Shapton 16K ain't all that. That it's no better than a good Y/G escher followed by chrome oxide.

I do not need yet another hone temptation.

Oh, I thought of something!

Since the stone is thin, it would be pretty hard to use without placing it in a stone holder. I know Lynn and someone else bought the Shapton stone holder and they like it alot. That's a bit pricey. I bought one of the Woodcraft adjustable stone holders and it works superbly and is inexpensive.

That could be considered a negative, couldn't it? I'm just trying to help you out, I couldn't think of anything else!

Chris L

[Joe Chandler]

Really glad you posted this. I just ordered a whole set (1k-16k) of these hones. I bought the holder, though. Thanks for the good review.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Really glad you posted this. I just ordered a whole set (1k-16k) of these hones. I bought the holder, though. Thanks for the good review.

Glad to have you aboard on the Shapton ship, Joe. Please be sure and share your thoughts on these stones. Did you get the 6000 grit stone? The only two I don't have yet are the 6000 and the 30000. I keep thinking the 6000 would be a fun stone to play with and may be a great stone to use for edges that don't need a fair amount of work, but maybe need a bit more tweak that the 8000 would give.

Chris L

[Utopian]

Chris,
Why do you hone with the toe leading when "everybody else" leads with the heal if they angle the razor?

[Joe Chandler]

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Glad to have you aboard on the Shapton ship, Joe. Please be sure and share your thoughts on these stones. Did you get the 6000 grit stone? The only two I don't have yet are the 6000 and the 30000. I keep thinking the 6000 would be a fun stone to play with and may be a great stone to use for edges that don't need a fair amount of work, but maybe need a bit more tweak that the 8000 would give.

Chris L

I didn't get the 6k. I just got the 1k,4k, 8k, 16k, and the holder. Honestly, didn't even notice the others, as I was just trying to replace/improve over the Nortons I have currently. I will probably end up with every grit above 220 . I think the 30k is overkill, particularly since I have an Escher and a coticule. Above the 16k, I'd probably rely on pastes.


From where I ordered from, the shipping sucks, though.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Utopian

Chris,
Why do you hone with the toe leading when "everybody else" leads with the heal if they angle the razor?

Thanks for catching that, Ron. I reread and edited for content. I misspoke. When I hone on stones, I do skew with heel leading like "everybody else". I had a moment of inverted mental imaging if there is such a thing.

Chris L

[zepplin]

Originally Posted by Utopian

Chris,
Why do you hone with the toe leading when "everybody else" leads with the heal if they angle the razor?

This is a subject that could probably lead to another thread. I've been wanting to ask Chris the same thing. I can understand the mechanics of creating the bevel by doing this, I'm not too sure about it, though, but it is contrary, in regard to changing the directions of the opposing microfibers on the edge, or difficult, to perform the "X" pattern while going through the entire honing process. - even stropping.

In other words, I don't think you can do the entire gambit of honing, i.e., creating a bevel, polishing, tweaking the edge, stropping, pastes (linens or paddles) - without the method and direction "Utopian" is stating.

Does that mean you will change directions at some part of this process? and if you do (toe leading, then heel leading) is that alright in regard to changing the two directions of the microfibers?

Steve

[zepplin]

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Thanks for catching that, Ron. I reread and edited for content. I misspoke. When I hone on stones, I do skew with heel leading like "everybody else". I had a moment of inverted mental imaging if there is such a thing.

Chris L

Okay, now I feel better.

You had me goin', Chris!

Steve

[Bruno]

I know So is very impressed by the Shapton glas stones. They have just been introduced in Japan, and he considers them top of the line.

[Jimbo]

Actually, mentioning So reminds me. Any Aussies who are interested in obtaining a Shapton through Lie Nielsen (authorised Australian Shapton dealer) should do it now. They just got a new shipment of Shaptons in, but they've had all sorts of bother over the past several months. Apparently we (Aus.) are down the bottom of the list when it comes to stock priority - the glass stones have been so popular that there has been a several month waiting list through Lie Nielsen while they try to procure more.

Having said that, So would have stock I'd guess from the Japanese market and probably doesn't have the same stocking issues. And I guess there's nothing stopping Aussies ordering from the US either - at the current exchange rates it may even work out cheaper than ordering domestically (Aussie Lie Nielsen sells the 16k for 159AUD plus postage, last time I looked)...

James.

[dylandog]

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Oh, I thought of something!

Since the stone is thin, it would be pretty hard to use without placing it in a stone holder. I know Lynn and someone else bought the Shapton stone holder and they like it alot. That's a bit pricey. I bought one of the Woodcraft adjustable stone holders and it works superbly and is inexpensive.

That could be considered a negative, couldn't it? I'm just trying to help you out, I couldn't think of anything else!

Chris L

I appreciate the effort, Chris.

I guess what I need to know is this. Those of you coming to the Shapton 16k from one of the fine natural finishers, which of the following best describes your response?

(A) Wow, this Shapton is serious business. It can hold its own with my best coticule/escher, and when you factor in cost and consistency, it's a hell of a bargain.

(B) Holy smokes! I was getting terrific edges with my escher + chrome oxide, but this Shapton is a whole new level of sharp. It used to take me 3 passes on the chin and two passes everywhere else to get BBS, but with these Shapton edges damned if I can't do it in one and a half passes. Etc., etc.

Please think carefully before checking (B)! It's not just a question of me throwing another C-note at a hone, getting my ass kicked by my wife, etc. It's that a whole belief system – a cult-like worship of natural hones as the ultimate – might come crashing down. Tread softly here.

[ghart]

Here's another vote for the 16k Shapton! Mine arrived last week, and I have been amazed at how good it is. I am relatively new to wetstone hones, having previously used oilstones (I've been shaving with a straight razor for many years!) I read how that it's possible to do the job with a 4k/8k Norton so I got a good edge with this, but not properly shave-ready. I must have been close, though, because after just 5-10 laps on the 16k Shapton followed by a few strokes on a chromium oxide paddle strop, my blades were passing the sticky thumb drag test easily!

I believe that it was the 16k Shapton that made all the difference, and I am dead impressed with this piece of kit!

[Traveller]

I have the 16K and the 30K I really like the 16 it give superb results,the 30 works very well too, but I find it produces an edge similar to a Feather,Too sharp for my tastes,and also for razors I ship to customers as shave ready.I have also found that some razors dont take to the 30k very well,(softer steel,lower quality razors),it seems to me that they produce an edge that is too delicate,and deteriates too quickly when shaving.I havent really had enough time and experience with these to be sure,Im going to spend some time this summer fooling around some more with the 30,and look at some edges under the scope.I really dont think that the 30 is of much use to me,or would be to many users,especiall when you consider the price,but its fun to experiment with(I also have the lower grits,and like them too,I have too many hones,but I have a lot of fun with them.Best Regards Gary

[RobertFontaine]

I am finding my 16k edge is almost too sharp and am having to learn to maintain a very consistent blade angle. You can definitely hurt yourself with this one

I have to admit to being completely satisfied.

- Bob