[biggbadwulff]

Here's my set up. A Japanese 1k/6k waterstone. The Norton 4k/8k waterstone. A Belgian Blue polishing stone. And a made in Pakistan strop from Amazon.com/. No strop paste.

My razors are all antique store finds and Ebay specials.

I did the conservative pyramid, followed by the standard pyramid. I did this about two times each because I just thought the blades were in pretty rough shape. Which they were. But I can't get them shave ready. I then honed them without the pyramid, using the heel first method to create hatch marks(one to two back strokes) before moving up to the next stone. And then honed until they were gone.

I can get them to shave the hair on my arm easily. And it seems like they are passing the thumb pad test. But they won't pass the hanging hair test. And they are giving a really rough test shave.

Am I just holding the razor wrong? Am I just not doing enough strokes? Can anyone give me an idea of how many strokes/passes I should be doing with my set up?

[gugi]

The most important part in troubleshooting something is figuring out where are you at.
Easily shaving arm hair is a good sign and passing TPT is a good sign as well. Do you know what TPT should feel like? Have you tried your everyday razor with TPT to know where it must be?

[biggbadwulff]

Yeah, I've used the thumb pad test on a Charles Monsieur straight razor that has disposable blades. I just can't seem to get it up to snuff. I've put in two hours of just honing nice and slow working my way up the grits, but it doesn't seem like I'm making progress.

[cassady]

Hmmm. There's a lot of advice possible.

1. I think the most important thing in bringing an old razor back to life is setting the bevel. For that, I'd recommend that you use a magic marker to mark the shaving edge of the blade and work the low grits (I start with my 1k stone).

2. While others will certainly disagree, I find the best results occur when you have something between an 8k stone and your strop. Some folks use a 10k/16k stone, some use chromium oxide (green) or diamond paste. After that, you can use newspaper for stropping, which adds a really nice polish and sharpness.

3. I suspect many folks will suggest getting a high quality strop, like those Tony Miller. Seems to me to be good advice -- your razor touches your strop more often than anything else, even than your face, and they're relatively inexpensive (particularly for the quality of a TM handmade strop!), so why not work with the best? I say "others will suggest" because I started with a TM strop, and have never used the Pakistan made ones, so YMMV.

4. Even a relatively dull razor will shave the hair from your arm if you shave it like your face -- a good test, particularly if you don't want to be pulling hair out of your head all the time, is to run the razor over your arm, spine touching but blade lifted slightly. If the hairs pop off, you're there. Given what you have, without buying more stuff, a polish (50 stokes?) with newspaper after the 8k may help.

5. Lynn Abrams has a great video that has all the info needed for a new entrant into straight shaving. It will repay it's initial cost within a few days in time lost to bad honing, shaving, and other frustrations.

6. Perhaps the most offered advice on this forum is to get a razor sharpened by one of the many honemeisters to shave-readyness. It's useful to see where you need to be for a good shave.

7. Keep at it. Some Razors are harder to deal with than others, and, if my experience is any example, there is much to learn in the beginning, and the middle, and so on. But it's great fun, and a great shave is something to look forward to.

Of course, there are many more experienced than I, and their advice is undoubtedly worth more. But I'm just starting out as well, and have brought auction razors to HHT sharpness, thanks mostly to advice by folks here. I'm just passing on what I've learned through reading the forum and helpful answers to my questions. Always remember, if it was fast and easy, everyone would be doing it. Most folks do it, seems to me, because of the craft -- which takes some time and effort to learn. But this is a great community, and a storehouse of a great amount of collected knowledge. And always remember: it's possible.

Best of luck,

cass

[cassady]

Whoops. Forgot the most important part:

In setting the bevel, after you use the magic marker, hone on one of your low grit stones (1k/4k). That allows you to see whether the bevel is even, and whether you're honing the entire length of the blade. The bevel should be even, and span the entire length of the blade.

Often, this is the problem -- and no amount of higher grits will help unless you've set a good bevel initially. Blades with a curve, sometimes called 'smiling,' can be particularly challenging. (see posts on the 'rolling x stroke' for more info on how to sharpen a smiling blade).

cheers,

cass

[biggbadwulff]

I'm starting to suspect my problem is my bevel setting. I've been lurking here for a while and it seems like that's what trips most people up.

Now, I know the bevel should run the entire length of the blade, but should the bevel be the same width down the blade as well?

[Karakoup1]

Originally Posted by biggbadwulff

I'm starting to suspect my problem is my bevel setting. I've been lurking here for a while and it seems like that's what trips most people up.

Now, I know the bevel should run the entire length of the blade, but should the bevel be the same width down the blade as well?

The honing and stropping is the base to have a good shave out of your Str8... Of course, you have to be regular on setting a bevel on it... and if after all the pyramid process, you still have a rough shave, you may consider to use diamond paste (fast cutter), chromium oxyde (0,5 micron) and/or some great stuff that I am using (less than 0,5 micron)..

[gugi]

Originally Posted by biggbadwulff

Now, I know the bevel should run the entire length of the blade, but should the bevel be the same width down the blade as well?

Not necessarily, but if it isn't it is a signature of uneven hone wear and wrong geometry, so I'd pick another razor to learn on. Check the wear on the spine. If it's uniform and your bevel is systematically uneven it's likely that you're putting uneven pressure.
Magnification can be quite useful as well.

Lastly it appears you've chosen to do this the hard way - nothing wrong with that, but you should be prepared that this will take you longer. I always recommend that people start with already honed razor and first do just touch-ups.

[biggbadwulff]

The magic marker trick seems to have helped. I can now get the razor to pop the hairs on my arm when I put the heel to my skin and leave the edge up a bit. Is that enough though? It still won't pop a hair from my head. I have really fine hair by the way.

[cassady]

The only for sure way is to lather up and shave with it! Everything else is just a test. Shaving is the real thing.

Don't forget to strop it up: light or no pressure on the blade, with the strop held tight. You might consider stropping it up on newspaper (stretched tight over something -- I read a post where someone used a book) for 50 or so passes, which will add to polish and a smoother shave.

Be sure to let us know how it turns out!

cass

[gugi]

You're close. If the last hone your razor hit was the 8k for at least 10-15 laps, strop and test.

good luck

[Ben325e]

I usually finish on chromium oxide, but last night I tried some different stuff, just for fun. I cut a 3 inch wide peice of MDF and glued a piece of glass of the same size to the MDF. I then taped down some newspaper tighly on the stone, and smeared a little bit of Mothers Aluminum and metal polish on hte newspaper, and stropped about 30 - 40 times. Since the glass is extremely flat and the polish is very fine, you could even do it a couple of hundred times probably and not over hone. Then I replaced the used newspaper with fresh, and stropped about a hundred times on the plain newspaper, i.e. no polish. The shave was surprisingly good. This was a on a 7/8 crown and sword 1/2 grind.
I felt no need to finish on a chromium oxide strop at all. The shave was very smooth.
It's dirt cheap, and you can even just pull the glass out of a picture frame and lay it on your table instead of gluing it to MDF.

You mentioned the belgian blue - it's not really considered a polishing stone. In terms of grit I would place it between your 4k and 8k norton. Your 8k norton would be your finest stone, most likely. Actually, in comparison to most other 8k waterhones, I think the norton ranks to be more of about a 6000 grit stone. I would finish your pyramids or whatever you want to do on the Norton, as gugi said 10 to 15 passes on the norton as a final stone, then go to your local auto store and pick up some Mothers polish. 30 - 40 passes on the mothers, then about a hundred on the newspaper. Provided you've set a good bevel to begin with as the others have pointed out, you should be able to have a good shave off of this. It's dirt cheap, and dang effective.

Good Luck!

[biggbadwulff]

How many pieces of newspaper are you using by the way? Just one, or a whole section's worth?

[xman]

Wolff, I think you need to go back to basics. If your bevel is set, do a medium pyramid on the Norton combo and nothing else. That Belgian Blue may be the problem right there as it's not really a finisher. Test shave. If it's not quite there, wait a day or two and do 3, 1/3 laps and test again. If you're shaving and you just want it to stop pulling a little bit. Strop on newspaper for about 30 or 40 laps. That should help.

X

[biggbadwulff]

I agree, and that's what I did. I did the pyramid skipping the Belgian and then did the newspaper. I got a pretty good shave out of it too. But I must admit, it wasn't as smooth as it could have been.

I cut some newspaper and taped it to a 3''x5'' piece of glass from a picture frame and did 150 passes. I did so many because my newspaper strop was so small. How many layers of newspaper is recommended? I could feel the double-sided tape on the passes when I used just one piece of paper.

[cassady]

I use a piece of stair spindle, cut in half and sanded flat, and I wrap the newspaper tight around it and fasten it with a binder clip on the back side. I use one sheet of newsprint folded in half twice, (which makes four layers). I don't know what others do, but it works for me. Sounds like your method is okay, but I'd attach the tape in the back so there's no bumps.

cass

[Ben325e]

Don't use double sided tape. Tape one end down, then pull the newspaper taught, apply tape to the other end. If you think of it like a football field, then the tape is only on hte endzones, while the 100 yards inbetween is only newspaper with just glass underneath. Don't use double sided tape underneath, just put tape it from the top. I use 1" wide painters tape to ensure that I get plenty of adhesion. I use just one piece of paper.

As X said, Bevel setting is key.

[biggbadwulff]

Do you strop with leather too? Or do you just use your glass and leather setup?

[Ben325e]

I always do about 60 passes on a hanging leather strop before each shave.

[biggbadwulff]

Is that to give it a smoother shave? Because I'm doing about a hundred passes on the newspaper/glass set up, but it's not as super smooth as it could be. It's smooth, but sill not as smooth as my disposable straight's blades. Or is this just indicative of not enuff honing?