[ralphleon]

Hi folks,

So I'm new to straight razor shaving and have recently started to try it out. As you can see by the title of this thread ... it has not gone so well. Here's my equipment:

- Strop
- Dovo shaver (professionally honed)
- Herban Cowboy soap
- synthetic soap brush
- hairy face

I've read the faq. I've watch videos on youtube. I've honed my razor. I've stropped it first. I've showered. I apply good lather. So I know that I'm new to this, but other newbies _seem_ to be having better experiences. As soon as that razor touches my face it burns like hot sauce and sticks to my skin. Definitely _not_ gliding down my face. Feels horrible and my skin is the color of a fire-hydrant afterwards.

I've also searched the forms a bit looking for hints. However, I present this question to you: the professional -- what should i do to improve this experience? My hair is VERY coarse, and my skin is rather sensitive: so maybe there is no solution? I normally shave with an electric razor.

Thank you!

[Bart]

It's hard to tell, but something 's definitely wrong.

It could be your lather. You might have a sort of allergic reaction to it.
It's rare, but does happen, and you should rule that out.

You could have dulled the razor, due to inadequate stropping.
Something that happens often with guys new to straight razor shaving.
I always advice to test the edge for sharpness, after stropping, prior to shaving. The hanging hair test (HHT) is great for this: take a freshly washed, preferably thick, head hair, hold it between thumb and index finger and try to sever it with the razor at about 1/2" from the holding point. If it does, you can be sure the razor is up to its task.

You could be using too much pressure perhaps in combination with a wrong shaving angle.
Place the razor flat on your cheek, with hardly any pressure, lift the spine about 20 degrees. (That is the half of the half of a perpendicular angle). Slowly move the razor down, from sideburn to cheekbone. This should cut the whiskers pretty close to their base, leaving a bit a stubble for the next pass "against the grain" (something you better not attempt before you gained some confidence performing the "with the grain" pass.)

A two to three day beard is generally best for learning, and it gives your skin some time to adjust during the beginning of the learning curve.

Hope this helps,
Bart.

[netsurfr]

Well, Bart did a great job of covering a lot of points so I will try not to repeat.

I would have two recommendations for you.
1. Send your razor out to a honemeister to have it put is great shape. You will then have a reference about how the edge of the razor should feel when sharp.
2. Be very careful when stropping. Use no pressure, only the weight of the blade. I personally ruined a blade fresh from a honemeister when I first started out.

[gugi]

I'm pretty sure your soap isn't very liked around here. You should be able to get a good old school shaving shop or just regular shaving cream will likely be better than that Herban Cowboy stuff.
However if that's what you use for shaving, normally that's not the problem.

My money is on your razor not honed right.

[ralphleon]

Thanks for all of the good points gentleman! I'll try the hanging hair test tomorrow.

A few other points:

- I'm using a vegan strop from The Heirloom Razor Strop Co, which seemed to have been well reviewed here.
- I had originally tried some body co shaving soap and had the exact same reaction.
- When the bristles of the synthetic brush touch my face, it feels pretty horrible already. Perhaps both soaps I've tried have some normally innocuous ingredient that my body despises?

I'll try the hair test in the morning and see how that goes. Thanks again for the quick responses!

[dward]

I fairly new myself to straights ( a grand total of 3 weeks). From all that I have read here in the forums about the hair test it seems to be more of something to impress your friends than an indicator of shave worthiness of your razor. The best test of whether or not your razor is ready is to put it to the real test, shave with it. You will learn what is a properly prepared blade, not the hair on your arm.

[onimaru55]

Yes, the HHT demonstrates a sharp edge but not always a smooth one.
Seems most aspects have been covered but you don't say what your honing progressions were before stropping.
Your razor may need more refinement at the polishing stage.

[Bruce]

ralph,

If your face feels irritated when you apply the lather - this is bad. My non-medical diagnosis if that there is something in the soap which is giving you an allergic and if the brush is bristly and stiff, it may be excerbating the problem. You also say that you both honed and stropped the razor you had professionally honed. We could be having problems on many fronts here: bad soap for your skin, too aggressive lathering, a compromised edge, unsuitable technique, and/or not enough practice.

From your choices of shaving products, I'd guess that you prefer to use things which have a non-animal origin. I'd look around for some soap or cream of a well know label that does not use animal products and that should be identifiable on the label. To reclaim a potentially damaged edge, it may be a good idea to send the razor back to the person who honed it if you know that they indeed are adept at honing razors - not just any old kind of edged tool. When it comes back don't hone it or strop it. Mix up some new lather and start shaving the easy parts of your face.

When you do try the strop, make sure that both the spine and edge are on the surface when you make the stroke and start to turn the edge up, rotating on the spine, before you stop the stroke and reverse direction. Keep the strop reasonably taut and use quite light pressure on the razor.

Good luck and report back,

[ralphleon]

So I tried the dubious "hair test" this morning and my hair wasn't even fazed by the blade. It pretty much just bounced off the blade and then corrected its position once the blade had passed. So, it seems that my first try will be getting the blade re-honed and picking up some new soap. I did strop the blade 3-4 times (as in a set of times) but with at least some attention to the proper method (spine first, taught strop, no pressure). Is this enough stopping to securely screw the blade? Perhaps it was never honed well in the first place? The blade was a gift, and it had a "professionally honed by so-and-so" tag on it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for soap made from natural products? I suppose it's not that big of a deal seeming how the two natural soaps have irritated my face.

[Lt.Arclight]

First,try not to be frustrated. You have to walk before you run. THERE IS a solution. I too, have an extremely tough beard and believe me-once you feel what a TRULY SHARP razor can do,you'll see why we all are so dedicated.

Pre-shave prep is crucial. Your skill will only come with practice. Learn to respect the blade-but don't fear it. Razor burn/ irritation occurs when you don't let the RAZOR do the work. And if its not sharp-its not going to cut your whiskers-it will however turn your face into HAMBURGER.

I encourage you to read through some of the threads posted. You aren't the only one to experience frustration. DON'T QUIT.

[maplemaker]

Originally Posted by ralphleon

So I tried the dubious "hair test" this morning and my hair wasn't even fazed by the blade. It pretty much just bounced off the blade and then corrected its position once the blade had passed. So, it seems that my first try will be getting the blade re-honed and picking up some new soap. I did strop the blade 3-4 times (as in a set of times) but with at least some attention to the proper method (spine first, taught strop, no pressure). Is this enough stopping to securely screw the blade? Perhaps it was never honed well in the first place? The blade was a gift, and it had a "professionally honed by so-and-so" tag on it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for soap made from natural products? I suppose it's not that big of a deal seeming how the two natural soaps have irritated my face.

How many laps did you make on the strop those 3-4 times you stropped? I learned quicky that for me, 25-30 laps wasn't enough. I now do 80. 40 after the shave and 40 at night before bed so it's ready in the morning. That may decrease after my diamond paste for my paddle strop shows up, but on straight leather that's what I'm doing, and I'm hitting the chromium oxide on the rough side of the strop for10 to 15 laps every two shaves. (You guys with more experience, if I'm giving wrong advice, please correct me so I can refiine my technique...)

[Bart]

The Body Shop shaving cream might be a good choice for you. It lathers up very well, is gentle to the skin, and The Body Shop has its reputation for ethical awareness. It's good stuff, as long as you're not allergic to it.

About the HHT. I formally declare (stands up and raises right hand): it is not just a parlor trick. Maybe some use it for that purpose, but that doesn't make it less valid. What ever test you perform to probe the quality of a razor's edge, it won't ever tell you the whole picture. Only an actual shave test does. But if you don't have shaving skills, how can you asses a shave test? The HHT tells you something about the ability of the razor to sever a hair. It's an easy test to perform and it's quickly done. If your razor passes, you'll be able to shave with it. If your razor fails, you might still be able to shave with it, but then again it might be too dull for a succesful shave. As a sideline, I never managed to have a single good shave with a blade that failed the HHT. Not that I ever perform the test before a shave, but believe me when I say that I know my razors pass the test. And so will you, within a few months of practice shaving that coarse beard of yours.

That said, next a word about how easy it is to dull a razor edge. Cutting a piece of paper, running the edge over the thumb nail, what the hell: running the edge over anything else than well moistened human hair, all those things can dull a razor in a instant. Some of those things can be done by investigating customers in a knife shop that also sells an occasional razor. Some of those things can be done by the stores personnel, that might manipulate a razor without actually understanding anything about it. During a stropping session, turning a razor over the edge (instead of the spine) once, is enough to dull it to the point it needs to be rehoned.
A keen edge is so thin that a bit of micro-corrosion can render it useless. It's good practice to protect a razor with a drop of oil, certainly if it's left unused for a prolonged period.

I don't know where you are, but I offer to assess your razor and rehone it for free, if necessary, so you can get going without additional cost. I'm in Europe (Belgium). I'm pretty sure one of the US members will match my offer.

Best regards,
Bart.

[AusTexShaver]

My first few shaves with a straight were a lot like your experience but without the burning sensation.

In addition to the great advice you've received so far I would try adding a pre-shave oil to your ritual. If nothing else just take a teaspoon of olive oil and rub it all over your face before you put on the lather. This trick cut my initial learning curve considerably. If you do use oil I'd highly recommend you wash it all off your hands before picking up the razor...sharp AND slippery don't play well toghether.

[badboris]

First check if your skin accepts the soap.
Lather your face and dont shave.
Keep the lather for 30 minutes rebrushing your face a couple of times.
If you have no adverse reaction then your soap is OK for your face.

You say your razor stick to your face, maybe that soap is not very slippery.
Take a butter knife, pretent to shave with it, see if it glides easy or sticks.

[Quick Orange]

Burt has covered almost everything how I would say it, but I would like to add a couple things:

Your brush- you said it felt prickly and hurt. To fix this, you might try getting some decently hot water and soaking it in there for about 5 minutes. I had a cheap brush that felt like that, but with the hot water treatment it felt great.

I have sensitive skin and coarse-ish beard hair, so I feel you pain. Seriously try out some different soaps/cremes. I went through 2 before I found a decent one that didn't irritate me. Also, make sure that you're making your lather properly. For soap, take your heat treated brush and squeeze out the excess water. Load it up with soap from the puck by pressing the brush into it and turning it back and forth. After you've got a goodly amount of soap on there (you'll learn the right amount after a few times), move it to a bowl. Add a teaspoon or so of water and whip the hell out of it. If it isn't making a nice foam, add a little more water and keep whipping. Your goal should be something akin to the barbasol type stuff. It's a really good idea to just practice making lather without shaving. Figure out what works and what doesn't.

Take care of your skin afterwards. It's a bitch in the beginning, but rub some rubbing alcohol on your face after you butcher it. I promise you'll want to punch a hole in the wall the first few times, but it makes a difference. It took me from getting serious razor burn and tons of beard zits to zero burn and zero zits (even on bad shaves). As an upside, it's a great way to find out when you have a good shave. When you're getting good, there will be no burn or sting whatsoever from the alcohol. After you've rubbed a sufficient amount in, it's a good idea to moisturize. I like the Loreal men's shaving lotion myself because it moisturizes really well and has sun protection, but any good facial moisturizer will work.

Good luck, and don't lose hope. It gets better, I promise!

[AusTexShaver]

There is one other possibility that you might explore and that is cleaning and sterilizing your brush and razor. It's rare but it is possible there might be something on either or both thats contributing to the irritation.

At the risk of being labeled an alarmist (which I'm not) or starting a panic (which I normally only do when my nieces boyfriends see me honing my straights ) here is a link you might want to check out.

Disinfecting a brush - Badger & Blade

[AusTexShaver]

Originally Posted by ralphleon

So I tried the dubious "hair test" this morning and my hair wasn't even fazed by the blade. It pretty much just bounced off the blade and then corrected its position once the blade had passed. So, it seems that my first try will be getting the blade re-honed and picking up some new soap. I did strop the blade 3-4 times (as in a set of times) but with at least some attention to the proper method (spine first, taught strop, no pressure). Is this enough stopping to securely screw the blade? Perhaps it was never honed well in the first place? The blade was a gift, and it had a "professionally honed by so-and-so" tag on it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for soap made from natural products? I suppose it's not that big of a deal seeming how the two natural soaps have irritated my face.

My suggestion would be to try a soap that has no fragrance and my first choice would be Mama Bear. Peruse her website and you'll find a link that describes the various reactions to different types of oils (natural vs synthetic). It sounds to me like you're having an allergic reaction to the fragrance in your soap which is aggrevated by using a stiff brush which pokes it into your skin.

MAMA Bears Soaps LLC, Mama Bears Soaps LLC, Shaving Soaps and Bath Products for the Discerning Gentleman and Lady

[30Cal]

I'm allergic to nothing in this world, but I've gotten terrible rashes in the past as a result of vegan soap (thank you, SAS Hotel in Oslo--I'll not try your "vegetal" soap again).

I'm not 100% confident that my razor is as sharp as it can be, but with the correct angle and a light touch, it moves without hesitation when I go with the grain, even in my roughest spots. It gets more scrapy with a steep angle, but still moves along briskly. The only resistance I get is when going against the grain, and then the correct angle becomes doubly important.

[AxelH]

I've noticed that Herban Cowboy (I have musk) is foamy but may not set in as a solid lubricant quickly. I have put on an initial layer of foam, wetted my hand and wiped it around to get a solid layer of slickness and then re-applied and used it. I don't think it is up to the level of Mama Bear or "Chelsea's Garden" (eBay) or a few of the creams I've tried, but it can be improved by that basic step. I think putting the first application of shaving soap before the first heat/moist towel treatment is prudent, considering Herban Cowboy's weakness. It foams up readily, but that physical structure means less in contact with the skin.

I found big foamers to really come through towards the end of the shave, which led me to believe it takes longer to "set in". Obviously using less water and making a thicker soap on the brush and layering on the face for a while and then wetting the brush and lathering up on the face is another route to true facial slickness. Whatever works, this is just IMHO. I used a 100% natural bristle brush for this, don't know how it compares to yours but it worked well enough (and didn't feel scratchy).

Actually, I like Herban Cowboy most after it's been on my face for a few minutes. And rewetting by hand, for the last 2 minutes of shaving, without more soap, just water, has shown Herban's highest lubricant ability. My face is slickest and most shave-ready at the end of shaving when I use Herban Cowboy, a common (for me) lamentation when washing the stuff off my face.

Now that I think about it, I have used the brush as an applicator at times, not a lathering goal but a tool to get it on, then slicked up with water. Kind of a soap-as-cream applied with a brush.

[..:uncertain:..]

Hello ralphleon, I just wanted to let you know that I contacted The Gentlemen's Refinery and asked if their products contain animal byproducts or test on animals; they quickly replied and stated that they DO NOT (to both questions). As of yet, I have not tried any of their products, but I am considering buying from them in the near future.

I hope that you figure out the issue and resolve it soon - my bet is that you are having some sort of reaction to the products you are currently using.

Best,

Jay

Here is the link: http://www.thegr.com/index.cfm?event=allproducts