TI Silverwing LE

thebigspendur · 01-22-2008, 02:39 AM

Well, we lost it all sob sob so now we can basically start the forum all over again and I wasn't going to post anything else on this subject however since the original is toast I'll just recap the review and bring things up to date.

When I originally did the review I rated the razor a B- and my issues were not shave ready as claimed by the vendor, needing alot of honing to get it shave ready, uneven bevel and off center pins. I also wasn't thrilled with the hardness of the shave. I did alot of honing on differing media, diamond pastes initially which improved things alot and then the coticule and the escher which further improved things softening the hardness and finally since the previous review I used CrO on it which I think has brought it as far as it can be taken.

The characteristics of the razor as it is now is that it takes a wicked sharp edge, probably as sharp or sharper as any razor I have (and I have about 90). Additionally it gives a very close shave. Closer than most anything I have and I find it to be a shave free of any irritation. Heck you can go over the same area of you face 10 times and still have no irritation from the thing. So with these characteristics you would say this should be the best razor in the world. Well, for me personally I find there is still a quality that this razor has that I can't quite put my finger on (no pun intended) that I don't like. The way a really exceptional razor just slides down your face so silky smooth? This ain't the silverwing. There is still some roughness or hardness in the shave. Its really a very strange quality. Its something you either like or don't and I don't. Most razors with a quality like this would need honing but I don't think that is the case here because a hardness in the shave is usually accompanied by other defects and thats not the case here. There are no other shave defects.

So would I recommend this razor? That depends. If you don't mind this strange quality it has you will get a truly great shave from it. Maybe once we get more feedback from other owners the story will change.

jmac · 01-23-2008, 05:06 PM

could the blade to to thin for your growth and you are getting to much or a harder response?

thebigspendur · 01-24-2008, 02:57 AM

No, I have about 90 razors of all types grinds and sizes. The blade on the silverwing is really a hefty chunk of steel and its a part hollow. I think it has to do with the new metal they are using. The thing really is different in every respect including what it takes to hone.

ZiggyDeath · 01-24-2008, 03:27 AM

Assuming I had the money, would the Silverwing or the TIPTLE be a better buy?

thebigspendur · 01-25-2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiggyDeath

Assuming I had the money, would the Silverwing or the TIPTLE be a better buy?

My personal opinion is the Thiers LE is the better razor but its more expensive also. If I were you I would get a Livi regrind and put the extra money in the bank. Also for the price of the Thiers LE your in custom razor territory and that starts to get really interesting.

Kees · 01-25-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The characteristics of the razor as it is now is that it takes a wicked sharp edge, probably as sharp or sharper as any razor I have (and I have about 90). Additionally it gives a very close shave. Closer than most anything I have and I find it to be a shave free of any irritation. Heck you can go over the same area of you face 10 times and still have no irritation from the thing. So with these characteristics you would say this should be the best razor in the world. Well, for me personally I find there is still a quality that this razor has that I can't quite put my finger on (no pun intended) that I don't like. The way a really exceptional razor just slides down your face so silky smooth? This ain't the silverwing. There is still some roughness or hardness in the shave. Its really a very strange quality. Its something you either like or don't and I don't. Most razors with a quality like this would need honing but I don't think that is the case here because a hardness in the shave is usually accompanied by other defects and thats not the case here. There are no other shave defects.

This is more or less how I feel about the TI raffle razor I won. When I first got it from Lynn it had a keen edge so I decided to shave with it as it had come and I got razor burn. Then I stropped it and used it again: no difference. I gave it 15 laps on the Y/G Escher and did the arm hair test: no difference compared to how I got it. When shaving I just felt like it was not sharp enough, like you have to do more passes than you usually do to get a BBS result, which I eventually got. Still not happy I gave it 50 passes on the Y/G Escher and 50 passes on the Nakayama. This way I got a BBS smooth shave with fewer passes but somehow when shaving it still feels the razor is not sharp enough though the result is BBS.

I still can't figure out why it behaves like it behaves. Thebigspendur's review was instant recognition for me.

shavindave · 06-09-2008, 01:10 AM

I recently purchased a Silverwing from Classic Shaving, honed by their service (Lynn?), and I've had a very different experience than thebigspender.

My razor is essentially perfect. Even grind. centered blade, aligned pins...not the slightest defect.

I took it for 20-30 passes on a chromium oxide paddle, stropped it up and shaved. The razor was smooth, close shaving, well balanced; a real delight to shave with. The only razor in my collection that I prefer is my Zowada.

Different strokes for different folks.

holli4pirating · 06-09-2008, 06:59 AM

Perhaps there are some quality control issues, or maybe shavindave just got one of the few outstanding razors from the lot (as can happen). I'd love to hear from more users, if there are any.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I think that now that workmanship and quality control for modern razors has fallen off (with respect to well made vintage blades), we as a group should put some effort into getting larger sample sizes into review sections of modern razors (mostly TI and Dovo).

English · 06-09-2008, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the review and all the useful follow up comments. I had great expectations for this new razor
and have been eagerly awaiting forum members comments.

I won't ever be buying a razor that won't give a smooth close shave straight off coticule/leather.

In fact, I would have returned the products you guys purchased on the grounds as not being fit for purpose.

We are all lucky in that we regularly read how to do things properly on this forum.

Why should the average punter have ever heard of chromium oxide?

The razor should work out of the box with the daily touch up on a leather strop. Period.

And how much money did you guys pay to NOT get a shave from your "new razor"? How much time did you spend getting the razors edge to work? It would have made me very angry.

Unfortunately, the problems that knowledgeable members seem to get from new "factory" razors seem to be all to common.

Thankfully, quality vintage razors are still available at very affordable prices.

Mike_ratliff · 06-09-2008, 07:28 PM

An understandable sentiment, but modern razors are made to suit what is currently available. because we do have chromium oxide pastes, TI can make these harder razors.

Vintage razors were made as best they could be, and still be honed on vintage hones.

We have also become spoiled because we do have these options. Shaving back in the day was for appearances, not for comfort... many of these older razors probably didn't shave as butterey smooth as they do now, simply because the owner couldn't afford a coticule.

A super hard steel razor like the Silverwing may need some fine tuning, but once you get it there, it will stay there longer than vintage razors, it will last longer if well cared for, and should be an excellent investment.

The strange feel that is being described reminds me of what I've experienced with Herbert Wacker razors. Those are reground and retempered vintage razors that are tempered extra hard... I've found that 150 to 200 passes on newspaper softens the feel of those out nicely, maybe we need to try this on a silverwing.

English · 06-09-2008, 09:15 PM

Mike I'd like to agree with you but I don't think we have gone forward at all. I think you are wrong.
One thing you are correct about is that prior to throwaway razors the man in the street did not own a hone, he would just drop his razor off at the barber shop and pick it up in the evening. He couldn't care a damn how it was honed but if it wasn't sharp the barber went out of business very quickly.

I'm not talking sentiment, I am just reading the facts and trying to point other members in a direction that does not lead them to expensive disappointment.
I have wasted money on three modern razors and been totally disappointed. The harder steel does hold a good edge if you know how to develop that edge. This said the shave is not more comfortable or "better".

The reviewers have paid a high price to test these razors for us.

The razors didn't work out of the box and should be criticised accordingly.
I do not think we should complement TI on producing expensive razors that don't work exceptionally and only experts can hone them to give a satisfactory shave. The quality sounds appalling.
I could get on my horse about this issue. I won't. Let it suffice to say that I have not had a shave from any modern factory razor than can compare with my vintage razors. In fact no modern factory razor I have tried including DOVO and TI have come close to the old every day razors that are still readily available at very low prices. This review tells me that that there has been no change to the status quo.

But we are all free to spend our hard earned cash in whatever way we choose. I just don't choose to support or promote mediocracy.

shavindave · 06-10-2008, 12:49 AM

Just for the record, I didn't try my Silverwing stropped straight out of the box. It may have been just fine; it had been honed with a perfectly even bevel that glinted smooth as a mirror.

I've just found, for my tastes, chromium oxide adds an extra smoothness off nearly any hone, including coticules. Shapton 16,000, Chinese 12,000, or ultrafine Spyderco. I didn't use the chromium oxide to fix any perceived problem with the razor.

If you like the feel of a razor better straight off the stone, that's OK with me.

thebigspendur · 06-10-2008, 01:16 AM

There is an old saying about people who put their faith in technology to save the day and it has many parallels in our day and age. I find it comical how people just assume things like you can never get a shave from a barber as good as you can get yourself and modern steels are just so superior and no razor from the 1930s or 20s could ever shave as good as modern razors. I say poppy**** to all that. I for one agree that vintage razors are better razors. Certainly workmanship in this day and age as far as mass produced items go doesn't hold a candle to things produced in the day. There simply is no more pride in doing things well (I'm not talking about custom items here). We all feel so damn superior to our ancestors because of our technology. Technology isn't everything.

As far as the silverwings go I don't think continued honing will do aything further with mine anyway. If it was a honing issue the razor either wouldn't cut properly or it would shave uncomfortably but thats not the case. It has comfort and sharpness in spades. It just has this very heavy feel to it. I have about 90+ razors and have them all, you name it, I got it and no razor I have shaves with these characteristics. I'm not saying its a bad razor in any way its just different and I personally don't like it. Many people might not care or might in fact prefer it. YMMV type of thing.