A hollow apology

Seraphim · 08-04-2008, 04:23 PM

My first two razors were full hollow Henckels Friodurs. I liked them, but then after trying a couple of other razors (Dovo Renaissance, vintage LeGrelot) I sold them, as they seemed to give a harsher shave on my face than the new razors.

I chalked it up to the new razors having a stiffer grind. The Renaissance is a hollow, but not as hollow as the Friodurs, and the blade is quite stiff. The vintage LeGrelot is maybe a 3/4 grind.

I then proceeded on to get a 1/4 grind LeGrelot, and restored a W&B wedge, and all was well in the shave den. Actually, the W&B wedge is my smoothest shaver, really very, very nice, and seeming to confirm my notion that a heavier grind is the way to go to shaving nirvana.

I recently spent a week in Osaka on business and brought the stainless Renaissance with me. It had been a couple of weeks since I had used it (1/4 grind LeGrelot and W&B wedge had been the previous two weeks rotation). I realized that it did indeed shave quite differently than my heavier grind razors, yet I still really enjoyed the shave, and felt that I needed to use a lighter touch when using it. This got me to re-think my stance on heavier versus lighter grinds...

I just recieved a full hollow Otto Busch Worldmaster on Friday. Nice razor. What I'm finding is that it makes me have to use a light touch. The wedgey blades I can push all around my face without much thought and they give a nice shave, they just plow on through like a tank.

Nothing wrong with that actually!

With the full hollow if I bear down too much it starts to feel harsh, so I have to back off a bit. And the audio feedback is more with the full hollow as well, a much louder shave. If the angle is getting too steep the tone changes, and you can adjust to it.

It's like the scene in the old Kung Fu TV show, where Kwai Chang has to walk lightly across the rice paper so that it does not tear.

YouTube - Kung Fu - Rice Paper Walk

Anyhow. I think that now I am coming around to realize that the issue wasn't that full hollows didn't shave me as well as heavier grinds. What was going on was that I couldn't shave as well with a full hollow as I could with a heavier grind. I now feel that a full hollow makes me have to be a better shaver.

My apologies to full hollow razors everywhere!

The happy ending to this story is that there are now that many more razors on my radar screen for aquisition now!

Seraphim
"Grasshopper"

Kees · 08-04-2008, 04:30 PM

Another razor junkie is born!

jnich67 · 08-04-2008, 04:36 PM

I completely agree. I went through a similar phase with the heavier grinds. Then I realized the heavier blades were masking my bad technique. After that lesson, I learned to take all of my "conclusions" with a grain of salt and realized that they might change in the future.

Jordan

OLD_SCHOOL · 08-04-2008, 04:44 PM

Ah you should have let me know you were going to Osaka. I need a good excuse to visit Osaka, and meeting someone from SRP would be the perfect excuse.

Oh well theres always next time.

Back on topic, I kinda like hollows, not to sure, my feelings about wedges.

Seraphim · 08-04-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Ah you should have let me know you were going to Osaka. I need a good excuse to visit Osaka, and meeting someone from SRP would be the perfect excuse.

Oh well theres always next time.

Back on topic, I kinda like hollows, not to sure, my feelings about wedges.

I'm headed back to Osaka (and Kumamoto for a couple of days) in September sometime.

The Blacksmith · 08-04-2008, 04:48 PM

I, also, noticed that my technique... particularly the 'angle' had to be changed with my full hollows vs. my thicker blades.

Sharp&Shiny · 08-04-2008, 06:21 PM

I have come to much the same conclusions myself .Over the last couple of years I've tried & enjoyed wedges 5/8 6/8 7/8 le grelot 1/4 hollows old english 1/4 hollows 7/8 Maestro livi 6/8 Thiers &half hollow thiers ,Japanese razors, & quite a few Dovos 6/8 & 5/8 Henkells ect. But now I am very happy using my 2 Dovos 5/8 Bigersher lowe & Bismark super. Ive now decided to settle with these 2 But I am lusting after a 6/8 dovo special that Lynn has on his site & as soon as I've sold the 2 Thiers 5/8 half hollows that Iv'e put up for sale I may well order one of those.
I am now thinking that the preshave prep is as important as a sharp blade .Paul

netsurfr · 08-04-2008, 06:58 PM

Interesting... I had exactly the same experience and came to the same conclusion. At one point, I was about to sell off my full hollow grinds. Glad I didn't.

Seraphim · 08-04-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netsurfr

Interesting... I had exactly the same experience and came to the same conclusion. At one point, I was about to sell off my full hollow grinds. Glad I didn't.

Yeah, I figured the guys who werre on the full hollow bandwagon just had effeminate gossamer beards that didn't require a "real man's" razor.

I'm looking forward to getting better with the full hollows!

English · 08-04-2008, 07:59 PM

Interesting post. But no need to apologise. I don't think the best has been made yet and I'm sure you will discover new razors you prefer.

I've tried many razors and my favourites are always SMOOTH.
Some razors are and some are not. It's almost as if different batches of steel work and other batches don't.

As to hollow v's wedge, weight v's light, you may find that you prefer different razors at different ages and stages in your life.

Your beard will change as you get older. Variety and experimentation is part of the fun of it all.

Having said that my son is waiting for some form of lazer treatment to be invented.

Seraphim · 08-04-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English

Interesting post. But no need to apologise. I don't think the best has been made yet and I'm sure you will discover new razors you prefer.

I've tried many razors and my favourites are always SMOOTH.
Some razors are and some are not. It's almost as if different batches of steel work and other batches don't.

As to hollow v's wedge, weight v's light, you may find that you prefer different razors at different ages and stages in your life.

Your beard will change as you get older. Variety and experimentation is part of the fun of it all.

Having said that my son is waiting for some form of lazer treatment to be invented.

Yeah, well that's why I'm thankful for my realization. Because I had pretty much written off full hollows as being "not my style". Now that I'm beginning to appreciate what they can bring to the table, it allows me to choose what style I feel "in the mood" for!

Seraphim · 08-12-2008, 08:22 PM

So, this morning's shave with a full hollow Wusthof was maybe the closest shave I've had yet. Really a damn fine shave.

2 1/2 days of stubble was whisked away with a feathery light touch of the full hollow to my skin. Alum gave only spotty stinging in a couple of places my touch wasn't quite "feathery"

.

Anyhow, as has been said by those wiser than me: "tough" whiskers don't require a heavier grind. What is most likely required is a very sharp razor!

sachin · 08-14-2008, 05:33 AM

Thanks for sharing your experience Craig. And thanks to all the other guys for sharing their experiences with full hollows. I have only recently started shaving with a Wapi (thanks to Craig) and have noticed that I get better shaves with it compared to the full hollow W&B 11/16 I own. I was planning on selling my W&B and invest that money into buying a new 1/4 hollow razor. Now, having read this thread, I think I have to try using a lighter touch when shaving with the W&B. Thanks to you guys, hopefully I won't have to sell my W&B which was my first straight and I am very attached to it

Chris L · 08-14-2008, 05:51 AM

I'm yearning to add a thicker grind to my rotation for the reasons you mention; so, actually in my current shaving evolution, my desire is to go in the opposite direction as you're turning. Give me the tanks that plow through and allow for a firmer hand. I tend to have a heavy hand and my full hollows sometimes remind me of that. I'm not saying I don't like them, I'm just determined to add a good wedge to my rotation and right now I haven't added a good wedge in quite awhile. The most recent was a 1/4 hollow that I enjoyed.

Chris L

Ockham · 08-14-2008, 07:43 AM

When I begun to shave with a straight, I had a Le Grelot 6/8 quarter grind and a TI 5/8 full hollow. I couldn't shave comfortably with the full hollow: she was giving too much feedback for my taste and I was a little afraid to cut myself. On the contrary, the 1/4 grind was stiffer, heavier and was giving less feedback; I felt far more comfortable and it gave me wonderful shaves (I could change hands - I am strictly right handed - and shave my whole face since the beginning).

After a few weeks, as I felt more confident and learned more technique, I get back to the TI. I had the impression that I was getting a closer shave, as comfortable as the one with the Le Grelot. It seems to accompany better the curves of my face. So, happy, I bought more full hollow and shaved almost exclusively with them.

But, lately, as I bought another 1/4 grind (a W&B) I get back to them to see that, having learn more and improved my technique, I was having as close a shave as with the full hollow!

So, in conclusion - and this is VERY bad for my RAD: with technique, I think you can have a close and comfortable shave with every grind - at least I can

I think that my progression was a good one because with the 1/4 first, I learned to shave with more comfort than closeness but without too much feedback to scare me, second I improved my technique with the full hollow to learn the curves of my face without being scared (I think it is not enough to only know the way your whiskers are growing) and now third, I can shave with whatever grind I want (I still haven't try a wedge though) I have a wonderful shave!

Seraphim · 08-14-2008, 04:24 PM

Well, I certainly won't be selling off my W&B wedge nor my 1/4 grind LeGrelot!

But the last two shaves with the Wusthof have been phenomenal. Really, the idea of just lightly squegeeing(sp?

) off the lather with this razor works like a charm.

And I had never bought into the story about how a stright shave can last longer than a DE shave, but these last two shaves have remained BBS for a good 12 hours. Prior shaves have lasted about ~8 hours or so.

I still have to try out my new Fernando Esser 5/8 full hollow before getting back to the heavier razors in my rotation. I'll be interested to see how the heavy blades feel again after working with the full hollows exclusively for 2-3 weeks.

Heavier grinds are like beer & wine-- everyone likes them, and they do the job well.

Full hollows are like a good Scotch--they seem horrible and harsh to begin with, but if you aquire a taste for them, there's nother better!