[Chris L]

This thread, at the request of Moderator Josh Earl has been moved here for any further discussion anyone wishes to make on the issue that was originally brought up here.

Chris L

[JoshEarl]

Thanks, Chris.

Guys, the mods are currently having a discussion about what type of guidelines should be in place for the BST forum. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. We will weigh your comments and balance them with the admins' goals in developing these policies.

I think we can keep the flourishing marketplace that is BST alive while also implimenting some modest boundaries.

Josh

[jnich67]

I just want to throw my 2 cents in here.

I do not think the BST should be a “free for all” where anyone can join SRP and sell a bunch of razors without contributing to the community as a whole. From the time I joined SRP, I always viewed and recommended the BST here as something of a “safe haven” where one could pretty much count on a fair deal because the community as a whole would keep members/sellers in line and not let them take advantage of a “buyer beware” free market.

I have noticed a dramatic increase in the price of razors - especially on ebay. Those increases now seem to be reflected, to an extent, here. I don’t know what’s causing this or if there is anything we can do about it.

I don’t think we need a bunch of new rules though. The fact that this thread arose says that the community is doing its job and policing itself. The “system” is working, so lets not futz with it too much.


Jordan

[heavydutysg135]

Does anyone think that it would make sense to implement some type of minimum post count and minimum amount of membership time before a "member" is allowed to post something for sale in the B/S/T section of this forum like they do at B&B? I am not sure if I do, but it might be something to think about because it could potentially reduce the problem of people registering just to post items in the B/S/T section instead of eBay.

[OLD_SCHOOL]

I can't believe I missed that thread. I think the greatest concern is what Philadelph bought up, the fact that, that particular member came here and started selling straights without so much as a proper introduction and most posts were either FS threads or how much are these worth?
I had noticed this myself and it is rather concerning to think perhaps our new members are just coming here to sell their razors that they know nothing about coz they are almost guaranteed to make a profit from a place that deals specifically to but not limited to straight razors.
I also noticed today, a similar member who has become a know-it-all in a matter of weeks, who openly said he paid $X for a razor and has put it up for sale at 257% profit minus shipping.

IMHO some guidelines might just be a good idea, because as stated, its the genuine newbie who comes here looking for a good quality shave ready straight that may end up getting/feeling ripped off.

Thanks to the mods for putting a plan into action. You have my support.

[Chris L]

I agree with Jordan on all counts. I'm afraid on B&B, where they're experiencing the same problem coincidentally (or maybe not coincidentally), that B&B may go extreme on regs, rules, guidelines etc. I hope that doesn't happen. The way some are talking over there, I would think they'd have to have a full time 24/7 mod just to police BST. Hopefully that won't happen there, and I don't think we need that here.

Jordan also touched on something I agree with; razor prices on Ebay IMO have gone up. The few times I've SOLD razors, I've sold them on Ebay because I wanted to get the highest price I could to make a profit. To me, that's why Ebay is there. Aside from the fees that Ebay charges, if someone is out to make a profit (nothing wrong with that) I cant quite figure out why they wouldn't want to list a razor on Ebay rather than BST? When I've sold on Ebay, I've benefited from the person that for whatever reason buys my item for honestly way more than I think it's worth; I'd never even think of "shooting the moon" on BST by asking for the absolute max I think some person may pay. I suppose if I had a continuous boatload of razors to sell, Ebay fees of a greater significance at that point would make BST threads at B&B, SRP, Shave my face, etc attractive. It's been said before, but SRP BST is not a fee-free Ebay equivalent and is not meant for that.

I DO plan on selling razors on SRP BST in the future unlike some that have said they never will. The reason I haven't yet is that I intend on selling razors I take great pains and time into restoring and razors that would first either be in my own shaving rotation or would be shave worthy sharp of being in my rotation. I'm not advocating that only such razors be sold in BST (and that razors in need of restoration not be sold in BST), I'm only giving my own personal example of what I intend to use BST for in relation to selling razors occasionally in the future.

Chris L

[sicboater]

+1 on this. I am relatively new to SRP, but I owe a great deal of my straight shaving experience to the ideals of this community. I would hate to see people taking advantage of the site in any way thus degrading the name and reputation everyone here has built out of sheer good will and fellowship.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

IMHO some guidelines might just be a good idea, because as stated, its the genuine newbie who comes here looking for a good quality shave ready straight that may end up getting/feeling ripped off.

Thanks to the mods for putting a plan into action. You have my support.

[gssixgun]

I have always been under the impression that the B/S/T/ was safer place to buy razors especially for new members...
The term "Shave Ready" has been discussed at length, and most realize that the best the can ever happen is that each seller does his absolute best to assure that he sells a razor that a new member can feel comfortable in trying for his first attempt at straight shaving... or a restored razor/semi-custom / custom built to their absolute best of their ability for any member...

That being said, besides prices on e-bay going through the roof even our favorite vendors have raised prices on new razors....
So yes prices are up, period end of story!!!!

My personal opinion is that the "Banter" is caused by non-contributing members whose only posts are in the B/S/T forum this seems to be the under current to the recent flare ups.... Some people sell razors for the love of this hobby, others are trying to make a living selling razors!!!!

Is there a solution that can be implemented by rules.... I think not, the solution is already in place, the Senior members police and protect the newer members quite well....Our Mods are quite efficient at quelling the small flare ups between members already..... Are we as a group the most gentlemanly ??? Really the answer is YES (Try going to any Gun Chat forum YIKES)

In general I feel that this is still by a long shot the best most friendly forum I have ever had the privilege of being a member of... I hope that it does not become a "Police State" full of rules and regulations..... That would truly ruin what we have here.....


Thank you for listening:

[Wildtim]

That thread is actually a good example of how the BST forum works well. I would have liked to see Philadelph's post sooner but I like the way it does in many ways seem to self-police to keep only the quality sellers doing good business.

I think that the best way to keep up the quality in the BST forum is to, as experienced shavers remember to comment on the positives, if any, of the items for sale. Kind of a recommendation system that way. Yes it could turn into an ol-boys network but thats OK as that will ensure quality as long as we're honest in our evaluations.

I must admit I don't often frequent the BST because I'm not in the market so to speak, but perhaps I should, if only to be a help to our newbies with my comments.

For instance upon seeing the first post of that thread my thought was, not a bad deal if this was a honed razor, but even then not a good deal. I figured the price would be a deal at $35 pre-honed and $20 or so in current condition as long a shipping was included.


P.S. I'd hate to see use go the way of B&B or SMF as they often seem to overreact to little things making them less friendly and less gentlemanly places to hang out.

[Churchill]

Hi guys,
I am relatively new here so I may be out of line posting concerning the rules of the forum.The only thing I found ironic in this situation is that not long ago a member of several of the shaving forums listed items on 3 different forums.More than 95% of his posts had been in the B/S/T's on the 3 forums.
I brought this to the attention of the mods on one forum and was chastised because the quality of the member's goods was very high.
I dropped the issue and didn't even mention it on this forum.
There was no complaining here about the fact that almost all of his posts were in the B/S/T.This was due to the fact that everyone was jumping on his high quality items.
I realize that everyone was just trying to protect the uninformed buyers that some newbies can be. But it should be a fair judgment on the member no matter what the quality is.
I think a minimum post count and minimum membership time is a great idea.
I've seen this actually work on the other forums because some of the sellers that were prevented from selling their goods never showed their face again.
That to me was a good indication that they were only there to sell.
Sorry if I've been long winded about this.
Thanks for your time,
Bob

[jscott]

I think that both a time limit ans post count limit should be required.

time limit because some people post 100 posts + a month. but 1 month into this you just aren't knowledgable enough.

post limit because someone can join and never paarticipate then start selling a few months later wiyh that I'd.

I agree that the benefit of our BST forum is that a new person can feel safe buying here and know what they are buying is as described. without the knowledge to state those about your item its just like an buy it now on ebay.

I think a minimum of 2months and 50 posts is not asking a lot.

lastly, I think good bad ugly razors can all be sold here. just take good pictures and state the facts. I've pm'd sellers calling things mint that had obvious rust all over it plus hone marks. shiney does not mean mint!

-J

ps. I don't think I sold a razor on the BST forum till I was a member for over a year

[Utopian]

I think a minimum post count would be a waste of effort. If I really wanted to jack my post count, all I would have to do is just briefly reply to every single post. In other words, if I am hell bent on selling my crap here, I will spend a few days piling on inane comments into the threads until I reach the limit, then I will be considered vetted and proceed to BST. I don't think a post count would be of any use but to dilute the forums.

If you review the posts of someone who sells a lot of razors here, you will see that his first post was, "What does it take to qualify to sell here?" There was nothing wrong with the question but a look at all of his posts makes his intentions clear. He never contributes to the content of this forum. He doesn't help anyone.

I think the only solution is to monitor the participation of people who appear to be selling a number of razors in BST. The "fee" for selling should be their participation, or contribution, within the entirety of the forum. If they are participating, then they are in essence paying their dues. If they are only selling razors, they are not contributing and should be asked to either join the club or move on.

[azjoe]

The guidance statement about selling on the BST forum has been stated a number of times and was made a sticky not long ago...

The BST forum is not a substitute for ebay... it's a place members can use to buy/sell/trade an occasional razor, etc... i.e., don't plan on running a "razors-for-sale" business on the SRP BST forum.

"Occasional" means just that... once in a while, not one every day or even a week.

"Don't plan on running a business on SRP... " has pretty clear intent.

Honestly, what more needs to be said.

Rules don't make things work... people make them work... you and me managing and conducting ourselves in concert with the SRP community.

We should all cherish members here who are honest and giving of their time and talents to foster the art of str8 shaving. But I don't know that you measure that by post count. Take John West as an example... hardly ever visits SRP but is a true str8 aficionado and a prominent member of the str8 community at large. Anyone would be foolish to discount information in any post he might make... and would you really want to deny him the ability of selling something in the BST (if he ever chose to do so) before he made a dozen posts?

The majority of the members of this community who sell razors do it because they like restoring them as a hobby, they enjoy the challenge of getting a good deal on eBay, etc. They like helping a newbie get started in str8 shaving with a decent sharp razor. They do their best to describe their items completely and honestly because that's the way we do things here... not because there's a rule.

SRP provides the BST forum as a place for a community for buyers and sellers to interact... SRP is not the guarantor, the merchant, or the broker. Things will work best if you police yourselves in the BST... but do it with the utmost respect and civility. Rely on the moderators to take care of those who refuse to act in a civil manner. Rely on yourself to know what you're buying and from whom.

There are 100-200 people joining our community each week... many are just lurkers/newbies, but those that decide to take up str8 shaving all need a razor. So demand is high... that implies to me prices will be also.

[They Call Me Blockhead]

I'd like to come out against basing the posting rights on post count. Having been a moderator on another board, it leads to lots of pointless posting to jack up post counts.

I've been here for a few months, but don't have a lot of posts. Why? Because I'm still learning. I could start posting all over the place, but most of the threads I read often are ones where I have no useful information to add. Most of my posts are questions or off-topic. That said, I just posted a WTB in BST and maybe I'll get better at restoring and want to put up a razor even if I spend more time here lurking and learning than posting.

I could start posting all over the place. Lots of "lol" and "I agree" posts, but if lots of people are doing that you end up with a discussion board without much discussion.

[azjoe]

Lots of other boards call posts made just to increase post-count "spam"... and spammers get banned.

[shotwell1234]

Maybe a hard limit of items sold per month would quell this issue? I know it would suck to do, but it might make a difference. Another option (that I personally don't like) is to have a mod ok items before they hit BST. Just a couple of thoughts.

[jockeys]

maybe have a minimum time on board as a contributing member before you can sell? i don't think anyone cares if newbs and spammers want to buy stuff, but maybe you need to be active for a month or something before you are allowed to sell.

i agree that basing it on post count is counter-productive, it will just lead to spamming in order to boost post counts.

[Utopian]

I respectfully, and only slightly, disagree.

I'm not sure exactly where the line should be drawn regarding frequency of sales. Case in point, Gary, aka Traveller, sells amazing razors and certainly has been selling more than one per week lately. I don't think anyone minds that he does so because he is clearly putting a lot of effort into the razors and they are amazing. Many others also consistently sell quality razors and by doing so provide a safe reliable resource for forum members, especially newer people who would likely be screwed over by an ebay purchase. I'm not sure such sellers should be so restricted.

I sell razors locally. I have never sold a razor on ebay nor have I sold any in BST. I usually go through spurts of prepping razors when I have some downtime in my lab. If sometime later I start selling some here, I don't see the harm in selling more than one per week if there is demand for them. The sheer number of new members indicates a continual demand for quality razors. I believe the quality of the seller should determine the acceptable number of razors to be sold. In other words, you should have to earn your right to continue to sell here and a friendly notice from a moderator can be used to ask someone to slow down or stop selling.

I'm not to thrilled with the new "thank you" addition and I have not yet seen any explanation for them (I haven't looked for it), but it smacks a bit of a popularity contest to me. I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of seller rating system is to follow. I would prefer for the forum to continue to self-monitor, pro and con, as much as possible. I think it has been working and that is what started this recent round of discussion. Who knew that a Boker King Cutter could stir up so much?

On the other hand, maybe we should just all set up our own selling sites.

[jnich67]

Originally Posted by shotwell1234

Maybe a hard limit of items sold per month would quell this issue? I know it would suck to do, but it might make a difference. Another option (that I personally don't like) is to have a mod ok items before they hit BST. Just a couple of thoughts.

The problem with the hard limit, to me, is that we have several respected and well established members who restore, hone and sell a number of razors per month. Now, based on the time they're putting in, they're not "profiteering" or making any money. Its more like a service in my mind. I'd rather have a shot at the items here than have to go for them on ebay or another forum. It gets complicated . I'd rather we have some flexibility and trust senior/respected members and mods make the judgment calls. I think we can handle a small flare up - like this one- once in while.

Jordan