Why go WTG at all?

BurnBeGone · 06-24-2008, 08:34 PM

My experience with cartridge razors was always that a WTG pass left me feeling completely unshaven, so when I used to use them I would only go ATG. I didn't bother going WTG first -- not only did it do no good, it always seemed the ATG pass was closer if I didn't do WTG first, as if the razor had more whisker to get underneath and grab onto. (Of course, my face always ended up a bloody burning pulp, which is why I gave up cartridge shaving years ago except to clean up around my beard.)

Now I've been shaving with straights for about 2 weeks. Again I find that the WTG pass, while nice and comfortable, doesn't do too much, and XTG is a little better but still not satisfactory over much of my face, so I have to go ATG almost every time to get a shave that is close enough for me. So my question is, if I'm going to do an ATG pass anyway, why bother with WTG and XTG? Won't I get a better shave if I skip those passes? Anyone have any experience with this?

Bruce · 06-24-2008, 08:45 PM

Nope, no experience with the aggressive approach, but if it works for your face, more power to you. I do a with and an across and I'm done. An against stroke just seems too contrary for my beneficent nature

hoglahoo · 06-24-2008, 08:52 PM

I can start out across the grain on my cheeks, but it's too rough anywhere else. I find it more comfortable to start with the grain everywhere. I usually find myself finishing my shave before I get to across the grain or against the grain passes though.

Try against the grain first and tell us what happens! Maybe it will work well for you. I've tried that with each different razor I shave with, but it just doesn't work for me

nun2sharp · 06-24-2008, 08:53 PM

I think the WTG is going to get you where you need to be before attempting XTG/ATG.. Like anything else I've ever done prep work was 90% of the deal. If your beard and razor will let you skip the WTG, and no harm done, go ahead and have it your way. I'll stick
to the little here, a little there approach. Let us know how it goes.
If you've been using straights for two weeks its my guess that it may have more to do with beard prep,blade prep,technique.

Seraphim · 06-24-2008, 09:01 PM

Try it and see.

If I'm rolling on consecutive day BBS shaves, I can skip the WTG and proceed directly to XTG, as there isn't much stubble in my way. After that an ATG gives yet another BBS shave.

If it has been >24hours, I always start off with a WTG. Out of habit I suppose? I guess I also buy into the idea of "beard reduction", not trying to chop it all down at once.

Quote:

Again I find that the WTG pass, while nice and comfortable, doesn't do too much

Well, one way to tell if is doing anything is to look at your razor/lather as you rinse the blade. Can you see whiskers there? I sure can, although I have the similar result as you, that my face doesn't seem all that much more well shaved with just that first WTG pass.

It seems to me that the shorter my whiskers are before attempting to go ATG, the better the whole proceedure goes.

One cut I recieved in the early going of my straight addiction was caused by the razor getting stopped in its' tracks by heavy whiskers, and the razor then turned forward motion into sideways motion, which turned into me having a jumping up and down motion as a nice slice was opened in my face...

But, give it a try and tell us how it goes for you. Perhaps your whiskers will let you get away with it?

RobertFontaine · 06-24-2008, 11:00 PM

I'm finding I do a WTG, ATG and then touch ups with water lately.

I could probably do an against the grain on my cheeks, sideburns first but it would certainly be a problem on my upper lip and neck.

I prefer being gentle to being efficient otherwise I tend to exfoliate to much and end up with razor rash after a few days.

-Bob

AverageJoe · 06-25-2008, 02:02 PM

Oddly enough, when I use my Merkur HD DE razor, I have to do the traditional WTG pass first. With my straight (even the first shave I had with it) I went north - south on my cheeks and neck, which for ME is ATG on my neck! I had 2 or 3 days of heavy, coarse whisker growth and experienced no problems or irritation whatsoever! This convinced me that I want to continue using a straight and I'm sure it will get even better as I get a few more shaves under my belt. Good Luck!

Mud Duck · 06-25-2008, 02:37 PM

I've responded to several of these WTG/ATG discussions, but if I may, allow me to offer one piece of advice. Don't dismiss the potential for good technique too quickly. Of course, as always, each persons face is different, and he should do what works for him. And, in my case, going against the grain is a tricky task even after with and cross grain strokes. Dull razor? No, this is not the case, because what I have concluded after much experimentation is that I can receive a shave as close as ATG by doing a single WTG pass well (Of course there are always a few touch up spots). So, I would like to offer some encouragement to some of the newbies that good prep, technique, angle, stretching, etc., etc. will go a long way, and that more time experimenting on the WTG before going against will be greatly beneficial to you and your dermis.

BurnBeGone · 06-25-2008, 06:31 PM

Thanks all for the interesting discussion. I gave ATG-only a try this morning, and the results seem positive -- one of the closest shaves I have had, with little irritation, not noticeably more than after a multi-pass shave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Try against the grain first and tell us what happens! Maybe it will work well for you. I've tried that with each different razor I shave with, but it just doesn't work for me

When you say "doesn't work", what do you mean? Less close? More irritating?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I think the WTG is going to get you where you need to be before attempting XTG/ATG.. Like anything else I've ever done prep work was 90% of the deal.

(>Mad Duck also) After my first couple shaves someone suggested my WTG/XTG technique would eventually get good enough for my satisfaction, but I've really tried everything and after the first pass of each it doesn't seem to get any better no matter what the technique. Maybe I'm just too picky about my close shaves. As for prep, I wet my face at the beginning of a hot shower, lather immediately afterwards (I'm using TGQ soap), and let it sit while I strop 50x on linen and 50x on leather. If I need to do much more prep than that it will begin to be not worth it for me.

[quote=Seraphim;227907]Well, one way to tell if is doing anything is to look at your razor/lather as you rinse the blade. Can you see whiskers there? I sure can, although I have the similar result as you, that my face doesn't seem all that much more well shaved with just that first WTG pass.[\quote]

It seems to me I've seen SOME whiskers removed on that pass, but I haven't really inspected the lather so I can't say for sure. What I do know is that running my fingers ATG after shaving WTG feels almost the same as if I haven't shaved, and repeat WTG passes don't make it any better. (Running my fingers WTG feels smooth, but that's true whether I've shaved or not.) It's a bit better after XTG, but there are still large areas that are too rough for me.

I haven't tried shaving a multiple-day growth with a straight yet (except for the first shave), but my experience with cartridges is that I would get a closer shave after more growth. I've always assumed it's because there's more whisker for the blade to get under. So I guess I'm not a believer in "a little bit with each pass." Doesn't seem to work on my beard.

Viola · 06-25-2008, 07:08 PM

When I was doing my first man shave (as opposed to shaving my legs where I only go ATG), he had a couple days growth and thick coarse hair. For giggles (yes, I often giggle) I tried ATG first on one spot and almost ripped his face off... even after good prep. It was absolutely necessary to do WTG first, then I followed with XTG and touched up ATG. I am only a humble newbie, but I can see how the individual's hair makes a lot of difference. I like the process of starting WTG first to minimize any irritation. Yep, that's my 2 cents... may only be worth 1 cent though.

Nord Jim · 06-25-2008, 08:16 PM

I think granular orientation depends a great deal on the toughness of the beard, the degree of tilt to the hairs, the toughness (or lack thereof) of the skin, the topography of the section of the face in question, and the attitude of the shaver. My beard is very, very tough, so going WTG for the first pass helps me avoid a lot of heartache later. On some parts, I find myself doing multiple WTG passes, rather than otherwise, simply due to the difficulty of the stroke.

j

Kees · 06-25-2008, 08:44 PM

I do a WTG pass on my chin only where hairs are thickest. I could get awy with one pass ATG but that would be less smooth and more damaging to the skin.

Flygande Mattan · 06-26-2008, 12:26 PM

Well, for me (like many others I believe) it's a matter of redness/irritation, if I go with the aggressive approach my neck gets a little bit beat up as I'm very prone to irritation there. I also find the shave itself much more comfortable if I do a WTG and XTG pass first.

Mike_ratliff · 06-26-2008, 01:30 PM

Generally the idea with a straight is to do a couple of passes with no pressure to avoid irritation. If I try to go directly ATG without doing a WTG pass, my hair will stop a blade in it's tracks regardless of how sharp I have it. (and believe me I can get a blade sharp.)
If you want a really comfortable shave, do several WTG passes, with good skin stretching and prep. I can get really close to BBS going WTG alone, and have absolutely no irritation. I only need the ATG for my chin and under my jaw line. For an absolutely true BBS, I do 2 WTG, 1 XTG, and 1 ATG pass, overkill for most days. It all depends on you though, if your hair is fine enough, I don't see why a single ATG wouldn't work...

loueedacat · 06-26-2008, 01:55 PM

First, so much depends on your beard. I'm sure going ATG first would shred some guys and be a breeze for others. I had the same experience as you with cartridges - starting ATG seem to catch more. I think that can work with straights too but I mildly prefer starting WTG.

I always start North/South on my face - which is WTG. On my neck, North South is ATG, and sometime my first pass is ATG and sometimes its WTG. Both work well for me and just depends on my mood and how good I think my prep was (if I'm using a really ready razor and favorite soap I'm much more willing to go ATG first). I'd say I tend to have less irritation if I start WTG and that's what I'd recommend, but not by much.

I actually don't go ATG the grain at all on my upper lip and chin - just too harsh there.

poona · 06-26-2008, 08:43 PM

It's beard reduction, not instant removal which makes the key to a great shave.

Johnny J · 07-03-2008, 01:55 PM

My experience matches Viola's. If I try to skip the WTG pass, I get a brutal, painful shave, even though the WTG pass by itself doesn't appear to remove very much hair. That's my face, YMMV

shuredgefan · 07-10-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Try it and see.

If I'm rolling on consecutive day BBS shaves, I can skip the WTG and proceed directly to XTG, as there isn't much stubble in my way. After that an ATG gives yet another BBS shave.

If it has been >24hours, I always start off with a WTG. Out of habit I suppose? I guess I also buy into the idea of "beard reduction", not trying to chop it all down at once.

Exactly what he said!!

Pyment · 07-10-2008, 02:57 PM

I have changed the first pass to a combo WTG and XTG. I use the XTG where I can get away with it. In trouble spots I do a quick WTG, relather then go XTG

Then I do 1-2 (usually 2) ATG and re-strop between passes. It seems to have improved things. I just don't seem to get there w/o 2 ATG passes.

At one point I was doing WTG, XTG in 2 directions, and 2 ATG. I ended up with a great feeling shave, but a sore face. Cutting 5 passes to 3 has left me with a pretty darn nice shave and a less sore face.

BurnBeGone · 07-24-2008, 12:58 AM

I've been trying the ATG-only shave for awhile now, and have to say I still think it works better than doing WTG first over most of my face. I found I was chewing up my lip on one side and also having to do my chin a couple times, so now I do XTG on my lip and chin first, then ATG (and ATG only everywhere else) and I've been getting some DARN close shaves with very little irritation.