[driver/examiner]

Have known Jim Ayars for a good while.He is a Straight forward guy and I'm sure you most probably just having a really bad first shave. Jim will do you right. He is a stand-up guy and he will stand behind his things. I have bought a coup[le of Dovo's from Jim and everything has been good.Also other things like stones,colognes and ect..If its the razor....He will make it right.
Jim C.

[jnich67]

Neal, if you haven't already, read this thread:

Things that took me a long time to figure out when I was a noob

What you need is patience and practice. Patience and practice...patience and practice...

If shaving with a straight was as easy as picking up a sharp blade and using it, a lot more people would do it. Let you face heal for a day or two. Then try just shaving your cheeks with the grain. When that is comfortable, expand the areas you shave. You have to get used to wielding the blade. That only happens after you do it a number of times. If all you want is a good shave - fast, then by all means stick with the DE.

One reason many of us enjoy shaving with a straight is that it forces you to slow your pace and pay attention. You've got your whole life of shaving to learn, so enjoy the process. Best of luck.

Jordan

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by RacerX

I did some forum reading and saw some posts about testing the razor on arm hairs. I tried it and found that it is even grabbing/pulling on my arm hairs. I have withheld the vendor's name, but I will post it here now. I purchased from Vintage Blades and paid the additional $20 to have the razor prepped by Lynn Abrams. There is even a label on the box that states that the razor does not need to be stropped prrior to first use. I have sent an email to Jim at VB and I'm awaiting his response. This was not the best time to start experimenting with a new shaving technique. I just started a new job and it was actually the reason I looked into straight razor shaving in the first place. I wanted to get a close shave that lasted throughout the day. In the mean time, I don't even know if I can use the DE. My face is not having the best reaction to blade shaving - period. Neal

1. Every razor honed actually receives a shave test by me. If you are unhappy and certainly have shown that, I am always willing to rehone a razor.
2. I always recommend to people who are new to start with just the sideburn to the jaw until they are comfortable with a razor. After a couple days, move to the cheek. Then to the other side of the face, the chin, the neck and so forth. Every face has it's own angles and it is best to take it on a little at a time vs. shaving the entire face first time. The chin in particular can be problematic as most people flatten out the razor when they first attempt to shave it.
3. Towels are nice and prep is very important. You want a soap that will keep a nice thick wet lather through out the shave.
4. As already expressed this is an art and it does take time to learn. Sometimes it is hard not to let expectations get the best of us and the support you are receiving from the great folks here is testimony to that.

Thanks,

Lynn

[netsurfr]

Originally Posted by RacerX

I did some forum reading and saw some posts about testing the razor on arm hairs. I tried it and found that it is even grabbing/pulling on my arm hairs. I have withheld the vendor's name, but I will post it here now. I purchased from Vintage Blades and paid the additional $20 to have the razor prepped by Lynn Abrams. There is even a label on the box that states that the razor does not need to be stropped prrior to first use. I have sent an email to Jim at VB and I'm awaiting his response. This was not the best time to start experimenting with a new shaving technique. I just started a new job and it was actually the reason I looked into straight razor shaving in the first place. I wanted to get a close shave that lasted throughout the day. In the mean time, I don't even know if I can use the DE. My face is not having the best reaction to blade shaving - period. Neal

Hi Neal -
I have a personal experience that I will relate concerning getting a shave-ready razor from anyone. I had a similar experience to yours and thought that I had really gotten a bad deal on having someone else hone for me. The vendor rehoned the razor for me and my first shave off the blade was acceptable considering I was just beginning. However, within a few shaves my blade was pulling and my shaves were very uncomfortable. It was not until I did quite a bit of reading that I understood that I had been rolling the edge on my razor by applying too much pressure during stropping. I am not saying that you have done the same thing because you may have better technique than I had in the beginning or have read about the probelm and knew to avoid it. However, if you have not read about it, you may want to consider it.

I am also not saying that the honemeisters don't let one get by them from time to time. It happens and they realize it and make allowances for it. Just do some research on stropping and make sure you are stropping correctly. There are plenty of threads here on SRP dealing with the subject.

EDIT: I see that Lynn beat me to the puch. He will take good care of you.

[dward]

Thanks Ben and Lynn for all the great info. Ben, that was a terrific explanation. Lynn, I have watched your CD a few times. This week is the week for me. I am taking Thursday and Friday off work this week, and that's when I will be starting. I didn't want to begin on a workday, or a day when I am going to have a big meeting. I want the time to learn this the right way...

Dan

[sssz]

Is there anyone near RacerX that can spare a shave ready wapi so he can try a different razor?
sssz

[Bruce]

Racer,

One of the things answered indirectly here was your face also needs some time to get used to the razor's edge. The blade is not just removing stubble, it is also removing skin, albeit with a correct application of shaving technique, it is only some of the dead skin cells. How much skin you remove depends on the manner in which you apply edge to skin. Your stroke will have to be learned by practice as you likely did not have the opportunity to watch one of your male relatives use a straight razor and watch the application of the subtleties involved. When you refine your techique and your face has developed some toughness to enable it to deal with straight razor shaving, you will get a very satisfactory shave. What you must do is allow the time needed for all these elements to come into play.

As a young boy I was fortunate to be able to watch my grandfather shave with a straight razor and see how someone used the "straight edge". I was pre-teen and grandpa would have been in his 70's, so I also watched how skin stretching was done to avoid getting a bunch of skin wadded up in front of the blade (big no-no). I shaved with a straight before growing a beard and have returned to it a couple of years ago.

Since returning after many years hirsuite, I have had to re-learn everything about shaving with a real razor. None of these lessons was acquired without some considerable effort, much trial and error, more trials with fewer errors, some gloating with subsequent bleeding These blades are sharp! And their application to one's face needs preparation and practice.

About the sharp bit - Lynn is someone who I have not met, but have spoken with and we have emailed forth and back a bit. Were we to live closer to one another, I have the feeling that he would be one of the guys who would become a good friend. If you are unsure of the edge on the razor which he has honed, he will make it right.

Jim Ayars of Vintage Blades is another of the brotherhood here who I have the misfortune of not knowing personally. I've purchased a bunch of stuff from Jim and everything is exactly what I understood it to be - or better!

So your razor not being shave ready, probably not, but if so, it will be made right. If it goes back for rehoning, when it comes back make sure you shave with it before you strop it so one variable can be removed from the experiment. There are a lot of things to be learned: face prep, lather making, stropping, blade pitch to face, blade angle to face, blade pressure, stroke sequence, number of passes options, skin stretch, etc, etc, etc.

None of this is learned overnight, so you also need to practice a bit of patience along with practicing some technique.

Best of luck,

[Roadie]

There are a few more options that you are able to pursue, one that I would recommend and that I think many others on this forum would recommend: Is going to the nearest barber and asking about shaving with a straight razor (THEY KNOW ALOT!!), and you might be able to convince one to show you how to strop if they still do it.

Or my personal favorite, the dovo shavette, its great to lean the ropes to shaving IMO.

Hope it helps, Roadie

[davisbonanza]

Racer X,
Where are you man? I can't add to any of the great advise you have received through the course of this thread only that I hope you have taken some time to calm down and let it all soak in. We haven't heard from you since Sunday, are you still there? Come on man, I mean the guy who actually honed your razor even responded here. I hope you decide to be patient and learn the art instead of ditching it over a crappy first shave. Anyway, chime in again and let us know how it's going, resolution with the vendor, second try, stropping or whatever.

Cheers,

[RichZ]

I want to throw in another thought. What kind of soap are you using? If you are using stuff in a can you will be lucky to have a face left. The soap in the aerosol cans are not good with straight razors. I can swear to this as I used it with my first str8 razor shave, what a butchery there was blood everywhere and I thought the hairs were being pulled out by the roots.

Everyone else has told you the truth, it takes a while to become proficient with a str8 razor. I can tell you I was extremely disappointed after my first 25 shaves. I thought I am a man, this is a man's thing, I can do it right away... Not true it takes time and practice and an amount of blood loss...

Stay with it you won't be disappointed..

[Whiskers]

Funny, but I went through the same thing when I first started ... which was only a few months ago.

The best advice I can give in this situation is to become comfortable with handling the blade first.

For me, this was the difference between scraping and shaving.

Pre-Shave Prep is a really big deal, believe it or not. I find myself prepping and re-prepping areas because it still takes me some time (30 minutes or so) to get through a full 2-3 pass shave.

I have sensitive skin as well and I have found that a pre shave oil without lather does the trick. I cant see what the blade is doing when it is covered up with shave soap. Never really did like shaving creams or soaps to begin with. Olive oil is my friend. Also I have found that hair conditioner works really well. I usually use some conditioner on the beard area in the shower. Post shower comes the hot water/hot towel then the oil.

Hey, it works for me.


As far as me chin .. well ... that area for me is a tough one as well. I never realized how tough the hair on me chin and moustache area really is.

I have found that when my blade handling technique suffers, I get scraped up skin. Usually this is from me pushing the blade into the skin to cut the hair. At first, I was impatient and would push through the chin area. The result? Not slicing off too much hair and getting really scraped up in the process.


A gentle touch, good prep, and lots of skin streching usually gives me a decent shave regarding the chin area. Like I said before ... I am still learning.

For me, I would rather leave some hair and not get all tore up than to try and get a great shave and get torn up ... and still have remaining hairs. Grrr.


Hope this helps.

[Seraphim]

#1 most important thing that leads to a more comfortable shave is to REDUCE THE BLADE ANGLE.

30-40 degrees is not a very good indicator of the needed geometry. If you use the scales as a guide and put then away from your face by an estmated 30-40 degrees, you will get a crappy shave....How do I know this? Well, let's just say that I know this, OK?

Put your razor pretty much flat to your face, then lift the spine by only about a spine's width off of your face, and then proceed. That is closer to the angle you need. 30 degrees off the face will rake the whiskers and truly not be enjoyable, and beat up your edge while you're at it, it will also increase the likelyhood of getting nicks and cuts....How do I know that?.....well....

[Labhoncho]

Great advice! I just got a new C-Mon razor and decided to shave with it straight out of the box, after a little stropping. It was not a great experience. It did shave, but not very close and not comfortable. It left me with razor burn that none of my other straights do. Now that I can feel the difference between a new out-of-the-box razor and my other pre-honed razors, I will now do some careful honing and stropping. It should be a much better experience after that. I'm still in the experimentation stage, trying different brushes, shaving creams and aftershave lotions. My brushes in order of satisfaction are, first, the badger hair, then below that is a nylon synthetic that does a pretty good job and finally, a boar bristle brush that isn't as good as either the badger or the nylon.
Larry

[Lt.Arclight]

RacerX, by all means don't give up just because you didn't get stellar results. Chin hairs are tough,depending on the shape of your chin and the coarseness of your beard. My beard is like wire. I STILL have to concentrate on my chin. Str8 shaving can not be learned overnight. Chances are VERY good that the razor you have is NOT your problem.

All the posts made raise valid points. Personally, blades honed by others rarely shave well for me. As your skin increases you'll learn that there is more to shaving than just a sharp razor. Lynn's DVD is a very valuable resource and I would definitely recommend it.I short,you have to walk before you run and unfortunately you'll have quite a few bad shaves until you figure out what you are doing wrong. I'd give it another chance before going back to the DE.

[AxelH]

Hmm. Long time, for me, since seriously posting about str8 razor shaving.

I'm not a newbie, neither am I an old-timer ("seasoned"). But, since my hymen-breaking straight-razor was from a poster in this thread (Sebell) I guess I should say...

Angles count. Pressure counts. But beyond that, pre-shave preparation counts. Heat treatment helps to soften the protein structures of the hairs, allowing for a much smoother cutting action. I don't know of anyone, anywhere, who does a lackluster job of stropping who admires the virtues of the straight-razor shave. It's a consistently renewable, carbon-friendly shaving edge.. that must be maintained. Forget the advice from some corporation's blurb that a simple stropping on the thumbpad is enough, or that a blade is good enough from the box (NOS or Lynn-honed NOS/NS).

People have remarked here that a blade is actually smoothest at about 5-7 shaves after touching up (refreshing or re-creating) with the finishing hone. Maybe there is something to that. I wouldn't know.

Sebell's 6/8 Dovo "Best Quality" gave me a fantastic shave, for the areas I shaved well (entirely my own fault/success) from the very first time I ever used it, my first ever straight razor shave. The double-edged razor (Weishi), the disposable razors (Bic and Walgreens house-brand) and Gillette's Sensor Excell (years ago) were my only history. The closest shave could only go about 6 hours before discernible bristle from the direction of the closest shaving direction. The first shave from the Dovo was probably about twice that. Still smooth. Seriously.

I had read many posts, from a variety of sub-forums and definently varied circumstances, and had thought many times over the subtleties of this most basic and powerful of shaving systems (with great power comes great responsibility). My face had undergone not only the first straight razor shave but also the confluence of events of my lattitude and region of the crystallization and melting and clumping and re-crystallization of airborne water-into-ice whipping at dramatic speed into my face for the trip into work immediately after the first str8-shave.

Pre "cook" the whiskers (soften), use a good soap/cream, use the angle that works for you, and please strop your steel lightly and thoroughly before you scrape it across your face.

If I had used the cannister foaming gels or foams as the lubricant... pain. No heat and moisture treatment... pain.. no adequate stropping.. pain. Don't be a pain to yourself. Each step is important, together it becomes almost magical. Mine was a first time, magical. I had two hours of tenderness and slight redness before it disappeared (after the horrible weather and trip to work). So smooth.. for SO long!!

I've learned about these stages through the double-edge safety razor. For double-edged blades I have India (Supermax (a smidgeon wider and therefore much more aggressive)), Korea (Dorco), Bangladesh (7 a.m.), and Israel (uknown just patent #) and local stores (K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Wal-Greens). For achieving a smooth XTG or XTG shave the age of the blade edge and all the prep work are major factors in determining the overall success of the final shave's results.

The Mach3 and clones, the DE shaver.. after the stropping is taken out of the time aspect of this manly shaving equation... after less than a month's worth of shaving.. for me anyway.. the straight razor mows them down with an authority that is beyond commercialization.

I will still use the DE for it's speed, it is a step above the cartridges (no real sycosis). But let's face it. If you know what you are doing and are mindful of the stages, the best, most enduring smoothness is still from the most basic of shaving "systems". It's just that from the cutting strength, there is the important need for a proper foundation and practice in the preparation for such an effective and different razing.

The skin adapts, you must allow for that. Technique matters, so do you. Prep-work matters, no amount of technique can really account for this (unless you're blessed with tough skin). Without good enough lubricant.. you're up the creek without a paddle!

Good luck, man. Let's hope everything gets sorted out in the end.

[RacerX]

Sorry I haven't responded, but I haven't been keeping up with the forum since my attempt with the straight razor. My skin was in lousy condition from transitioning with the DE and trying my hand with the straight. I have since gone back to my Panasonic Electric wet shaver. The electric gives a close, irritation and nick-free shave, but I am still looking for a better shave. My skin has recovered and my straight razor and related supplies are sitting in the box they came in. Vintage Blades offered to rehone the razor at no charge, but they will not take it back (which I understand).

I went to a new barber shop to get my hair cut today and they happen to do straight razor shaves, although the razor my particular barber showed me was a Feather with "Pro Guard" blades. I talked a litlle bit about my shaving experience with the barber. The Feather with the "pro guard" blade seems like an elegant compromise to using a "real" straight razor, but I am unwilling to spend any more money unless I can recoup some money from my Dovo purchase. So for now, I am unwilling to make any further inroads into the world of straight razor shaving. I know it sounds like I am giving up far too fast, but I am in a new, high profile job with strict grooming standards. I don't have the luxury of letting my face adapt to the new shaving method. I admire you guys who are able to pull it off. Neal

[RichZ]

Originally Posted by RacerX

. My skin has recovered and my straight razor and related supplies are sitting in the box they came in. Vintage Blades offered to rehone the razor at no charge, but they will not take it back (which I understand).

I am unwilling to spend any more money unless I can recoup some money from my Dovo purchase. So for now, I am unwilling to make any further inroads into the world of straight razor shaving. I know it sounds like I am giving up far too fast, but I am in a new, high profile job with strict grooming standards. I don't have the luxury of letting my face adapt to the new shaving method. I admire you guys who are able to pull it off. Neal

I think I smell a razor going on sale soon...

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by RichZ

I think I smell a razor going on sale soon...

And the sharks begin to circle.....

[nun2sharp]

Originally Posted by RichZ

I think I smell a razor going on sale soon...

Theres blood in the water! Look out!
But seriously X dont give up, one day when you are settled into your present position and have the time, maybe a vacation or holiday, your going to want to try again. Keep the Dovo.