The advantage of soft water - Page 2

jimmyray · 08-28-2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Has anyone tried the same thing with RO water? I have an RO faucet in my kitchen, so I may give it a go. THe water here in Austin is hard, so I am curious if I'll have better lather.

Reverse osmosis removes minerals from the water, and it is very soft. I haven't tried shaving with it though... I'll let you know.

Brad · 08-28-2008, 05:13 AM

I tried the RO water this morning with one of Mama Bear's soaps. Man did I get some serious lather. By heating it for a minute in the microwave, it also made my brush a little warmer than usual. If I use tap water that hot, the lather breaks down. This needs some more investigation, but it will likely become part of my routine.

thebigspendur · 08-29-2008, 12:28 AM

remember that hard water isn't a state of mind and isn't defined by how it affects you. Its based on the quantity of offending minerals. You can boil it or add salt or add chemicals to counter its effects but those minerals are still there and its still hard. Those things don't make it soft. Most detergents have borax or some other chemicals mixed in to counter the effects of hard water. If you used pure soap with hard water to clean your clothes it would be a disaster. If you use pure soap and you have soft water you can avoid those expensive detergents. You don't need them.

If you have hard water try adding some borax to the water for shaving. It might make a big difference. It won't remove the minerals but will kind of cancel them out. Kind of like adding sugar to some bad tasting medicine to make it taste better.

Chris L · 08-29-2008, 02:40 AM

I'm glad this thread is here. I've learned a lot. We have extremely hard water, but I can't bring myself to pay for a water softener and the ongoing cost of ownership.

I've lived with hard water all my life and I actually hate the feeling of taking a shower in softened water on the number of occasions I've done so. The freaking slippery feel........never.......rinses........off. I hate that.

I figure I get too much sodium in my diet as it is, and the idea of drinking water with a sodium level even if it's a small amount seems odd for me.

This thread is great though, because it's shed light on the reasons as to why with very hard water I can never really get my beard softened as much as I'd like. I can stand in a hot shower with the water hitting my face for minutes on end, and while the water is on my face, the whiskers do soften up; the minute I step out of the shower, it's almost like you can hear them toughening up again.

This also helps me because now I know why some soaps/creams seem to work well for some but worthless for me. Tom's of Maine creams? Crap for me (I now use it as shampoo). Even TOBS cream is just so/so. Actually, Proraso cream is the best of the bunch I'm using now, and that's IMO just OK. I'm really glad to hear that Tabac is hard water friendly as well as Castle Forbes. I'm there with those that soap and cream.

Thanks guys.

Chris L

majurey · 08-29-2008, 10:52 PM

This is good stuff! It seems there's some debate about the effects of boiling water on its hardness, but no-one has questioned the softness of rainwater.

So how would one go about neutralising the natural acidity of rainwater? I live in the big smoke, so the water is bound to be slightly (or more) acidic. I can get a hold of pH strips to test the acidity, but here's the rub... adding conventional alkalis (lime/calcium-based salts) would harden the water by introducing exactly those elements that cause hardness?

thebigspendur · 08-30-2008, 12:23 AM

rainwater is formed from evaporation and then condenses out from the clouds. It should be ph 7.0. If its acidic it must be picking up something on its way down or the collecting medium must be imparting something to the water.

Without adding chemicals I don't see how you would adjust the acidity. Ask anyone with a large fish-tank and they will tell you about adjusting the hardness and the acidity. There is this thing called a buffer in the water and as the hardness of the water changes the acidity changes because the water is able to accept the difference but as one parameter changes the whole formula changes kind of like a seesaw.

timberrr59 · 08-31-2008, 03:18 AM

Mark, You created a good thread about soft water. How did rainwater lather work for you? I just finished a 5/8 hollow Dixie Razor and gave it a try. I use rainwater and Pirate's Cove Menthol Soap. It was a very nice shave. In the summer I shower and shave outdoors behind my garage. It is in the country and it is private. All I had to do was build a simple shelf onto the wall of the garage, hang a small mirror, and dip water from some of the irrigation system's 5-gallon buckets. The towel hangs from the gutter downspout pipe to an 1100 gallon tank. This is great. I enjoy doing this. Sometimes mosquitoes bite if there is water left in the buckets (they lay their eggs in stagnant water). We keep our buckets empty most of the time. I do carefully dry and oil my blades because there is some acid in our rainwater. The main concrern is that rainwater contains no minerals and will rust steel quickly. Rainwater will clean pipes that had hard water deposits in them over the years. Rainwater is kinda neat with its unique qualities. If I were King everyone would have a stash of rainwater to enjoy as much as I do.

majurey · 08-31-2008, 06:21 PM

Today I decided to shave straight from the tap in London -- and the shave was harsher for sure, alum block giving little stings here and there.

So... it just rained today again (the heavens really opened this time) and the water butts are full. I'll bring some in now in a container for my next shave (Tuesday) and will report back.

majurey · 09-02-2008, 08:56 PM

Today's shave was with rainwater. The results were not as I expected.

The lather made from rain water was 100% better. Great cushion, very easy to whip up, and stayed wet for much longer. Even when it started to dry a little on the skin, it didn't turn into that cakey, bitty, dry soap consistency.

But then the shave. I used the same blade (untouched by hone or paddle since the last shave), same linen, same leather, same shave cream, same scuttle even! Everything was the same. Including time of day. So that's all other variables eliminated.

And the shave was slightly disappointing. It was closer than with hard water, for sure, but it was just as harsh on the skin. I made sure I washed my face with the rainwater before hand to soften up the whiskers.

So there are two possibilities, I'm thinking.
[1] I was heavier in the touch than last time. I may have unconciously tried for a closer shave knowing the water might be softer.

[2] Rainwater in London is not as soft as groundwater in the moors of Devon and Cornwall, filtered through peat etc.

I'm going to try again on Thursday, this time mindful of keeping a light touch.

(Oh, and I'm quite sure that merely being on holiday/vacation is not a variable in my case as I always shave at night, taking my time, and enjoying the moment -- no quick shave in the morning before work for me!)

timberrr59 · 09-02-2008, 09:48 PM

I always wash well with regular soap and rinse before lathering up for the shave using shaving soap. My skin is oily and does not shave well unless very clean before lathering. I guess I am using a lighter touch when I use rainwater lather. I never thought about it until you mentioned your experience. I keep the brush wet for add-ons as the shave progresses. I did find a neat way to spread blade-accumulated lather. I use the blade like a spatula and smear it where I want to shave next if needed there. It is almost like stropping-only using the face as a strop! It felt like a smoother shave when I did that. This method keeps fingers, towels, and rinse water away from the blade. I guess it could be called Lather Management. I call it Lather Wrangling (like with cattle). We as humans tend to move things about, nothing seems to be in the correct place at the correct time. Ever. Good shave, Robert

rustyblade · 09-03-2008, 06:00 PM

I posted this picture on Shavemyface a while ago and thought this might be of interest in this water related thread. This is a picture of our water system at home that treats our well water. While we are blessed with plenty of safe drinkable water, it is very very hard, and also has plenty of iron and organic tannins (we are surrounded by swampy areas). Each "problem" has to be separately treated. We also have a reverse osmosis system under the kitchen.

The system goes in this order:

1. Well water pumped into house into pressure tank (not shown)
2. As water is pumped into the pressure tank, an air pump runs injecting air into the water line. The air oxidizes the iron so it can be filtered.
3. Water enters the mixing tank on the right where the air and water mix (so you don't get air pockets in the pipes)
4. Water goes through the iron filter, this process does not require salt and will back wash after a set amount of gallons.
5. Water softener, self explanatory. Will backwash with brine after set gallons (800).
6. Organic colour (tannin) remover. Will backwash with brine after set gallons (1800). This filter is last in line as it has the most expensive resin and needs to be protected from iron and hard water.
7. UV filter, just in case. Our water has been tested for bacteria and came back negative. With little ones drinking the bathwater and so on, it is a good idea to have.