The advantage of soft water

majurey · 08-24-2008, 11:34 AM

I live in London, UK, and the water here is incredibly hard. Most shave creams and soaps take more work to create a lather, the result being usually less than optimal -- a great cushion, but dries quickly. The state of the water is most noticeable with things like kettle elements furring up within a couple of boils -- I'd hate to see what it does to dishwashers and washing machines.

Anyway, I'm 'blessed' with this sort of water for shavng on a regular basis. Most of the time I just get on with it, not noticing. It's what I'm used to. But every year we go on a family vacation out of London. It doesn't matter where we go, the water is almost always guaranteed to be a lot softer there.

Right now we're in Cornwall/Devon borders, and the water supply is pumped up from the groundwater -- water that has come from rain (and boy has there been a lot recently!), filtered through the peat and moss on the moors, and pure as crystal. It makes a great cup of tea annd coffee, for sure.

Anyway, Day 3 of vacation was the first shave day. I took out my travel kit with my little TI Dandy 4/8. It's a good blade -- took me a little getting used to for honing (it's not stainless, but seemes harder than most CS blades). Stropped it. Left it on the side while I stepped into the shower. Came out and started to shave.

The difference was immediate. The soft water had made my whiskers almost silky soft compared to usual. And the blade just glided over my skin, scything down every last hair. I found I could adopt and extra light touch because of this and the result was not only BBS, but an incredibly smooth shave. The alum block test proved this -- not a single twinge or slight sting. It was as if I was passing a bar of soap over my face. (With a more harsh shave, the alum block can sting like a mutha.)

I've been shaving with a straight for 18 months now (so still a newb compared to many), but I've got pretty settled with technique (shaving and honing). I can honestly say that the water in this case was the only variable, since blade, technique, cream, prep etc. have been constants for some time now. My conclusion?

The softness or hardness of the water can make a big step-change in quality of shaves. Big enough to be shockingly palpable. I am convinced of this (Shaves 2 and 3 during this vacation have been just as smooth).

Anyone else notice this factor?

timberrr59 · 08-24-2008, 09:27 PM

Mark, Collect some of that rain water. Keep it closed-lidded in the fridge until needed. It makes the Grandest Lather! Absolutely slick! We have very hard water here in the Hill Country of Texas. I built a cistern system for the landscaping and emergency water supply. I use rainwater for showering outside in the hot summer and I use rainwater for shaving. Be sure and dry the razor after using rainwater lather because even here the rainwater is slightly acidic. Man, it is tops for shaving. Please give it a try. Thank yall for having kept Sheffield for all those wonderful blades. That is where my beloved IXL and Pipe hail from. Good luck with a hometown shave. Robert

majurey · 08-24-2008, 11:09 PM

Now that's a damn fine idea, Robert! I am definitely giving that a go. I have a couple of water butts in my garden so there's a source anytime I want. Will report back if it makes the same difference.

thebigspendur · 08-26-2008, 12:42 AM

Soft water makes a huge difference not only in shaving but everywhere else. hard water gunks up plumbing and appliances and is poison to hot water heaters. Showering with it leaves residue on your skin and hair. Gardening with it causes a buildup of alkali in the soil over time and drinking it just tastes terrible. We have water as hard as nails here in New Mexico. If you have it and can't collect rainwater for shaving just get some water at the store for shaving. A jug lasts a long time.

Spike J · 08-26-2008, 01:55 PM

I had the reverse problem when I went to stay in London recently. The water here in south Wales is as soft as warm butter & I have no problem building lather & getting BBS. The first two shaves I had in London were not comfortable. I bought myself some C&E soap & was not overly impressed. In fact, I was disappointed, given C&E's reputation. I also picked up a puck of GFT but didn't test that until I got home. The results on that were amazing & it became my favourite. I retried the C&E & it was much better. It had not occured to me to factor in the water hardness to my assessment. Your idea has provided the missing variable. Thankyou

Karakoup1 · 08-26-2008, 02:36 PM

GREAT THREAD!!

I had same results, I'm talking about the softness of the skin, when I was shaving in the countryside where we have water supplied from a manual water-pump from a natural source...

Would it be a solution to boil the water before to shave with (with or without special salt)?

I will try it tomorrow as here in Warsaw we also have a quite hard water..

I also noticed a changement in the quality of my skin... It became more sensitive since I am living here..

I will post my impressions on the boiling solution as soon as I can....

Thanks again for this great thread!

nun2sharp · 08-26-2008, 04:52 PM

If you are going to collect rainwater just for shaving be sure to wait 10-15 minutes after the rain starts before you start collecting, this will give the rain time to clean the impurities out of the air, once the air is clean then go ahead and collect. Unless you like the feel of acidic pollutants on your face.

timberrr59 · 08-26-2008, 05:12 PM

I always discard the first few gallons of collected rainwater so that the roof has been rinsed of bird droppings, pollen, etc. The wait is important. Actually I never discard rainwater. The first few gallons are used in the gardens and are never co-mingled with the collected water. Thanks for the tip. This is good science.

English · 08-26-2008, 09:29 PM

I totally agree that hard water sucks.

But if you find a soap that works with hard water, you know you have found a special kind of gold.

Tobac, Floris, Trumpers Rose. I know they work with hard water. I use them with very hard water

The rest are a bit iffy. I also know that some reviews that sing the merits of the also ran soaps are undertaken with soft water.

Mind you, you had another variable. You were on holiday.

majurey · 08-26-2008, 10:46 PM

Cheers guys, some great suggestions here.

English -- there's one shave cream guaranteed to lather up like a dream in the hardest of water: Castle Forbes. Give it a go. You won't believe it!

Not sure if this is good science or not, but I might just have to run some basic comparisons now I've started this thread.

Rain
Boiled
Distilled
Mineral water
Guiness

Anything else to add to the list?

Spike J · 08-26-2008, 11:25 PM

White wine?

Or indeed we could give you a bottle of tap water from here at the Meet next month

thebigspendur · 08-27-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karakoup1

GREAT THREAD!!

I had same results, I'm talking about the softness of the skin, when I was shaving in the countryside where we have water supplied from a manual water-pump from a natural source...

Would it be a solution to boil the water before to shave with (with or without special salt)?

I will try it tomorrow as here in Warsaw we also have a quite hard water..

I also noticed a changement in the quality of my skin... It became more sensitive since I am living here..

I will post my impressions on the boiling solution as soon as I can....

Thanks again for this great thread!

Boiling will only be effective if you boil off all the water like in a distiller and let the water re condense leaving the minerals behind. Water softeners use salt in a ion exchange process where the salt is exchanged for the nasty chemicals in the water via resin beads. The only other way I know of to soften water is through filtering water through peat which works in small quantities and there are devices which claim to work through magnetism. Just adding salt to water will just make salty water.

Brad · 08-27-2008, 01:35 AM

Has anyone tried the same thing with RO water? I have an RO faucet in my kitchen, so I may give it a go. THe water here in Austin is hard, so I am curious if I'll have better lather.

Limey · 08-27-2008, 02:47 AM

I agree that soft water is fantastic for shaving. This is the third house we have lived in an installed a water softener. My wife thinks its her ideas and I get to hem and haw about the cost but I love having it and not only for shaving. Its great for all the plumbing fixtures, shower glass, water heaters, etc... Get one if you can, I highly recommend them!

Karakoup1 · 08-27-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Boiling will only be effective if you boil off all the water like in a distiller and let the water re condense leaving the minerals behind. Water softeners use salt in a ion exchange process where the salt is exchanged for the nasty chemicals in the water via resin beads. The only other way I know of to soften water is through filtering water through peat which works in small quantities and there are devices which claim to work through magnetism. Just adding salt to water will just make salty water.

I read you Bigspendur and I respect your point of view.

As I am someone who prefers practice over theory (no offense...

) I gave it a try.

Here are the results:

I boiled 1 bottle of tap water added of 1,5 teaspoon of dish washing machine salt and I formed my lather with it.

As usual, I added some glycerin to it.

I did my prep and I then lathered my face up. I noticed that the foam seen far more dense, more compact than usual. I warmed my blade into this very hot water and shaved.

The result is that I noticed my skin was a little softer than usual. I didn't achieve the softness I had using source water in the countryside, but my skin is softer.

Furthermore, I used less lather than usual.. It seems that this "soft water" helps the soap to lather more efficiently, as my badger was still full of lather after my usual 2 passes (WTG/XTG)..

I got my BBS the same way I am used to and I got this small improvement of the skin softness.. Not as bad though.

I will soon give a try with mineral water and rain water, just to compare with it.

Hope this will help someone somewhere.

Take care!

Bart · 08-27-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Boiling will only be effective if you boil off all the water like in a distiller and let the water re condense leaving the minerals behind. Water softeners use salt in a ion exchange process where the salt is exchanged for the nasty chemicals in the water via resin beads. The only other way I know of to soften water is through filtering water through peat which works in small quantities and there are devices which claim to work through magnetism. Just adding salt to water will just make salty water.

That is not entirely true.
Water hardness is always the sum of what is called "temporary hardness" and "permanent hardness". The temporary hardness is removed by boiling the water. That is why chalk clutters up water kettles and other water heating devices.
Boiling can make water considerably softer.
Decreasing permanent hardness through ion replacement exchanges the Ca and Mg ions with Na ions (sodium) The water will become slightly salter (still well under the threshold for humans to taste it). There are no nasty chemicals introduced into the water.

Has anyone ever tried lathering with champagne yet?
Just wondering...

Bart.

hoglahoo · 08-27-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by English

...Mind you, you had another variable. You were on holiday.

I was thinking the same thing. I always get a better shave on holiday

Chris L · 08-27-2008, 11:04 PM

Does the water softening process as performed by home water softener units add any sodium to the water? I'm terribly uninformed about water softening.

Chris L

Bart · 08-27-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris L

Does the water softening process as performed by home water softener units add any sodium to the water? I'm terribly uninformed about water softening.

Chris L

Most domestic ion exchangers replace the "hard ions" with sodium.
Hydrogen and Potassium are possible too, but you won't find those ion exchangers that often for home use, as the regeneration of such devices is more expensive.

Bart.

thebigspendur · 08-28-2008, 12:36 AM

Unless your very sensitive to sodium chloride the additional salt in the water isn't that big a deal and if you are sensitive you can use potassium chloride in place of salt.

Boiling hard water will not remove the minerals it just makes the minerals act a little different. For most household uses boiling is no solution and even for shaving you would have to boil and use the water before it cooled substantially. The only true solution for hard water is some type of processing.