Second Straight Experience - !@#%

ProfessorShak · 09-06-2008, 06:57 PM

So my first "real" straight was with the DOVO Bismark "Presharpened". Wasn't as good as I was expecting.

This time it was with a TI from AoS "Shave ready"

I took a hot shower, used the conditioner on my face that has worked in the past.
Scrubed, Cleansed, Hot toweled. Stroped the bloody thing 10 Linen, 50 Leather.
Lathered up and kept for a minute, did 10 more leather passes.

The Shave-

horrible!

I've shaved with a disposable straight for 2 years so the technique kicked in naturally, but it barely looks like I shaved!!

I just couldn't cut it.

Was it NOT shave ready? Did I not strop enough?

I REALLY WANT to shave with a straight I like it alot, but whats the point if it doesn't shave. I've been practicing honing for 2 weeks now with my ginueu pig razor, got all the sharpening tools needed, but I'm wondering HOW long will it take before I can finally say YAY with a straight?

(Words of advice and/or encouragement would be nice)

xman · 09-06-2008, 07:26 PM

If you're talking about a brand new TI, chances are it's not shave ready. It'll need to be touched up a little before it shaves well.

What hone(s) are you using? If you've got a 4k & 8K do a small pyramid; 5/5, 3/5, 3/5, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 ... gently and carefully for each stroke and you should be good to go.

X

netsurfr · 09-06-2008, 07:43 PM

If you have been shaving with a disposable straight, then you at least have the basics down.
Couple of things come to mind. Unless the razor has been sharpened by a honemeister, then it is not going to be sharp enough to shave even after stropping.
Second, unless you used a very light touch on the strop, you may have rolled the edge even if it was sharpened by a honemeister.
Not sure what hones you have but the Norton 4K/8K mentioned above is a good one. If a razor a good bevel and the edge just needs to be touched up, I use a yellow coticule. Every yellow coticule will vary a bit but they are generally considered to be about 8K with a slurry and 10K with just plain water. I have razors that have not seen anything coarser than the yellow coticule for over a year.

CloseShave · 09-06-2008, 08:45 PM

TI's are my favorite straight razor, howeverr, they are not shave ready from the manufacturer. There is a professional honing service on 37th street that AOS on Madison uses. It sounds like your Dovo is not sharp enough either

ProfessorShak · 09-06-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloseShave

TI's are my favorite straight razor, howeverr, they are not shave ready from the manufacturer. There is a professional honing service on 37th street that AOS on Madison uses. It sounds like your Dovo is not sharp enough either

Where is the place, I may pay a visit.

My hones:
DMT D8C, D6E
Norton 4/8K
Chinese 12K

Balsa strop with 1.0 Diamond Paste and CrO

Utopian · 09-06-2008, 09:39 PM

At least you have adequate equipment so at some point you will be able to sharpen them yourself. In the mean time, if you bought the razor from a store and it was marked "shave ready," you could take it back and tell them to try again. You might want to ask how exactly they accomplish getting a razor to be shave ready. Their definition might greatly differ from that of this forum.

Lt.Arclight · 09-06-2008, 10:36 PM

I have received " shave ready" razors from the honemeisters, all have been sharp, but none have given comfortable shaves. I would prefer to hone my own razors and generally those pre-sharpened razors-need some finish work for me to get a good shave.

Its not to say the honemeisters didn't so their job. Everybody's face is different and IMO, you MUST adjust your honing to suit it. Some may argue with this. But it is true-at least for me. Its not that the shave is a blood bath-more likely, its just more irritation than I would prefer. Those razors are easily finished honed.I recently bought my fisrt TI-an Evide Sonnant Extra. It was NOT shave ready and required more than just a touch of finish work.

Since you have shaved with a Str8,you have established some skill,maybe your skin is like mine. I agree with the other posts. Just a touch up on a coticule, or some strokes on a 16000 Shapton followed by stroping would probably help you achieve a comfortable shave.Good luck and most of all don't give up. You WILL enjoy a blade honed to your liking.

PS: FWIW, I too have 2 Dovo Bismarcks. One I honed and one I received "pre sharpened. This was the very first razor I bought honed by someone other than the factory. After stropping it about 50 or so times on leather- I too had a VERY irritating and unpleasant shave. Subsequently after finsihing the blade on my Shapton and more stropping-it is now a good shaver.

BeBerlin · 09-07-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

So my first "real" straight was with the DOVO Bismark "Presharpened". Wasn't as good as I was expecting.

As we in the technology department tend to say:

What did you do?
What did the razor do?
What did you expect the razor to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

This time it was with a TI from AoS "Shave ready"

I took a hot shower, used the conditioner on my face that has worked in the past.
Scrubed, Cleansed, Hot toweled. Stroped the bloody thing 10 Linen, 50 Leather.
Lathered up and kept for a minute, did 10 more leather passes.

The Shave-

horrible!

Two things for you:

Did you read, and actually understand, Why A "Shave Ready" Razor is often NOT Really Shave Ready - A Detailed Explanation?
There are many variables in the shaving equation. Your preparation sounds sound. Without further information about your actual shaving technique, though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

Was it NOT shave ready? Did I not strop enough?

One possible explanation is that God hates you. After all, you may never know. Any road, blaming failure on the razor is certainly one way to go. But why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

I REALLY WANT to shave with a straight I like it alot, but whats the point if it doesn't shave. I've been practicing honing for 2 weeks now with my ginueu pig razor, got all the sharpening tools needed, but I'm wondering HOW long will it take before I can finally say YAY with a straight?

Months, if anything. Alternatively, send your razors off to someone who knows what he's doing, and see what he says. Without a benchmark razor, trying to hone yours up is, well, not very useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

(Words of advice and/or encouragement would be nice)

I hereby encourage you to have someone take a look at your razors, and your shaving technique. Alternatively, please feel free to suffer some more. I know that is not nice, but shaving lessons are paid for in blood, and ingrowns.

xman · 09-08-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

Where is the place, I may pay a visit.

My hones:
DMT D8C, D6E
Norton 4/8K
Chinese 12K

Balsa strop with 1.0 Diamond Paste and CrO

Shak, follow my advice on the Norton combo first and maybe do a final 3 or 4 laps on the 12k to finish off before you go and get somebody else to hone that razor. you've got the equipment you need. With a little patience and a careful hand, you might be surprised at what you can accomplish. If it doesn't improve you can always go to the honing service.

X

sidneykidney · 09-08-2008, 09:55 AM

Wait- have you lapped your hone? That was my mistake....

CloseShave · 09-08-2008, 07:13 PM

The service is:
Westpfal Henry & Co Inc Cutlery
(212) 563-5990

I hone my own and have not used them but the AOS people on Madison use this company. I understand, he's been in business over 20 years.

Bart · 09-08-2008, 08:14 PM

ProfessorShak,

Almost one year ago, I decided it was time to hone my own razors. I bought a coticule and a Belgian blue. I started doing pyramids (something I picked up in thread A) between the Blue with slurry and the coticule with water (according to something read in thread B). I thought of the Blue as 4K and the coticule as 8K (information found in thread C)
I did not ask any more questions, because I expected it to be a piece of cake. After all, I had honed knifes and chisels and plane blades half my life, and the only difficulty I had with that was maintaining a constant honing angle, something that a razor does for you. How difficult could it be?
During the course of the next 3 weeks, I honed, almost every night. Doing conservative pyramids, doing standard pyramids, doing aggressive pyramids. I read thread after thread, each night, after my daily honing session, and before my nightly honing session. I stropped hard. I stropped soft. I stropped slack. I stropped taut. Sometimes, I managed to get a bearable shave. Mostly I did not.

By the end of the 3th week I was ready to swallow my pride and stubbornness and cried for help on SRP. I decided to follow only one lead, and not mix up different approaches offered by different people. The next day I managed to get a very decent edge on my razor.

Honing is not all that difficult, but if you take a wrong turn somewhere, you can spend hours performing zillions of laps leading to nothing but frustration. Once you manage to find the monkey wrench in your honing, you'll be surprised how easy it is to get a very decent shaving edge, and how much fun it is to tailor that edge to your personal preferences (for most of us that means increasingly sharper).

I don't really know what the monkey wrench in your honing is, but here are a few thoughts:

1. your DMT D8C.
Way too course to touch a razor. Certainly if that DMT is fairly new. 2 laps ruin an edge enough to need an awful lot of work on the D6E to smooth out the roughness of the D8C. The only time I ever use a DMT 325 grit on a razor, is when I need to completely rebuild an edge on a restored razor. Even then, I have an intermediate step on a DMT 600, before finalizing the bevel on a DMT-E (1200).

2. Your razors possibly don't have a good bevel, and need more work on the DMT D6E, or on the Norton 4K (depending on personal preference), BEFORE you can do anything meaningful on those finer hones.

3. Your stropping may be rounding your edges. Stropping is an art, maybe even more than honing, and those who have mastered it can be witnessed doing weird things on a strop, depending of how they assess the edge. Now is no time to fumble with stropping: strop gently on a taut strop. And never turn the razor over the edge (probably beating a dead horse, sorry)

4. Stropping on pastes is a way to sharpen razors. Honing on stones is another way to do it.
Hybride sharpening is something I consider an advanced technique. You will get a very decent edge off that Chinese 12K, and I really like to encourage you to stay away from the pastes until you're confident that you can repeat your great results off the 12K, time and time again. Only then, it is time to start experimenting with the pastes and learn what they can do for you.

I often get the impression that learning to hone is more about avoiding pitfalls than about some mojo you ought to develop before you can be successful at it .

Good luck,

Bart.