thoughts for newbie shaving sucess

clarman · 04-25-2006, 06:45 AM

I read post after post from novice shavers who are starting to shave with str8s...for the most part it seems their initial experience is less than gratifying...The shave is not close and in many cases unpleasant and bloody...so what do they do? after reading the forum posts, they buy a norton stone or buy paste to apply to a strop which should be applied to a paddle and work the razor to death...In my opinion this is not the road to sucess! A new shaver needs to learn and master the basics of stroping and shaving with the str8...He needs to purchase a shave ready str8 from a proven honer such as lynn...he needs to start out with a blade he can handle such as a 5/8 blade...by doing this, the new shaver will learn what a sharp blade is...the newbie should refrain from honing or sharpening with paste as improper technique will destroy whatever edge the honemeister has put on the razor and then its back to square one...I know everyone on this forum wants to see newbies...learn and enjoy the pleasures of str8 shaving...hopefully my thoughts will save the new shaver a lot of... pain and frustration

rgsccr · 04-25-2006, 07:00 AM

As a newbie, you touch on a number of things that I was about to ask. So far I haven't made too much of a bloody mess of my face and have gotten an okay shave, but I certainly have a long way to go. I guess my first question is about the sharpness of my razor. I purchased a Dovo 5/8 razor from a cutlery/shaving shop. It seems very sharp - should I be doing anything to it at this point beyond stropping? How often should I strop (every day, every other day)? It sounds like you are saying that for now I should not use stopping paste, is that correct? Also, the stop I purchased is an Illinois 827 and I guess I don't understand when one uses the linen side vs. the leather. Thanks in advance for any advice.

LX_Emergency · 04-25-2006, 07:23 AM

From what I heard most DOVO's dont come shave ready.....but since I don't own one I'm not sure.
And YES, don't use stropping paste unless your blade got rather dull.

First you use the linnen side, then the leather side.

rtaylor61 · 04-25-2006, 07:39 AM

Most, if not almost all razors are not shave ready. You need one of the honemeisters here to put a good edge on it for you. Ask around. It's $20 bucks well spent. Then you will know what sharp really is. I learned the hard way. Started with dull, then got sharp razors. I'm still working on mastering honing, but in the meantime, I've got shave ready razors. It's the only way to go.

RT

superfly · 04-25-2006, 09:52 AM

Here 's a link from Classicshaving.com's how to and why section. It answers all of your newbie Q's and gives you propper foundation for your straight razor experience. Read it ALL, and then ask here for clarification.

have fun,
Nenad

Tony Miller · 04-25-2006, 11:34 AM

Charlie,
That is one road that works just as there are many others. Quite a few guys here started out with less than perfect razors and quickly learned to hone or use abrasive pasted strops. Sometimes a less than perfect razor is the motivator to quickly become an expert honer <g>

I started with a less than perfect new Dovo. It was not sharp but Ray also sold me on the pasted strop idea. I was in business from day one by carefully following instructions. Other guys choose to start with the hone and also get good results.

One needs to judge their own abilities. I talk to guys every day getting started and from many conversations one quickly gets a feel that some are best off starting with a very easy path while others are ready to step up to the honing/pasted route from day one.

The one thing everyone will agree on is starting with a truely sharp razor in the beginning. Buy new and pay for honing or buy shave ready from a member. If still not right than there really is no other choice than to learn to hone or sharpen yourself. I get many guys who wonder why after a few weeks the razor is not as sharp as it once was............sharpening was never in their plan. They often think a hanging strop alone is all it will ever take. Sharpening, in it's many forms will be needed and should be learned fairly early in the game to keep those good shaves coming.

My 2 cents.

Tony

RichZ · 04-25-2006, 02:50 PM

I agree with Tony. I received a Dovo 5/8 as a present from my wife a few Christmases ago. I assumed it was shave ready, well it was not. I had a razor I bought on ebay sharpened by Lynn that is my guide to sharpness. I have a Norton 4k/8k hone a 12k hone and a pasted paddle strop from Tony. You will have to learn how to sharpen your razor. I have come to like the pasted strop to keep my razors sharp but at some point I think you will need a hone of some sort. Enjoy

clarman · 04-25-2006, 04:11 PM

I dont disagree with you guys...keeping blades sharp is essential whether by honing or using paste...but as you can see by the newbie post questions abound...basic skills need to be mastered...a well honed razor should stay sharp for several months minimum with proper care and effective stroping...establishing a benchmark for what a sharp razor should be...during this period the newbie gets proficient at shaving and stroping and lets be honest will probably acquire additional razors....at this point his learning curve, comfort level, and basic knowledge with the help of this forum asking questions and watching interaction between members will have increased...he will be in a better position to make an educated decision about the sharpening and maintance of his razors...I believe one of the benefits of this forum is the wealth of knowledge the members bring to it...If possible I want the newbie to not have to struggle in learning this form of art as most of us did...why pay dues if you dont have to...

rgsccr · 04-25-2006, 04:16 PM

I live in Seattle - can anyone refer me to someone who can hone my razor?

eagle · 04-25-2006, 05:58 PM

Here's my tip for anyone trying a straight for the first time, particularly if it isn't honed like it should be. Don't feel like you HAVE to shave your entire face with it at first. I suggest just doing the cheeks, neck under the chin, and any other easy spots at first. Then try switching hands. Shave only with the grain; try against the grain later if you want. After a short while you will develop a feel for the razor. When this is comfortable then progress to the rest of the face. I think you'll have less blood loss if you ease into the whole process like this.

Mike

ForestryProf · 04-25-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarman

...a well honed razor should stay sharp for several months minimum with proper care and effective stroping...

I've yet to find a razor that will maintain a comfortable edge for anywhere near that long. 7-10 shaves and depending on the razor, it needs to be freshened on a pasted strop or a hone...at least that has been my experience.

Just another data point,
Ed

clarman · 04-25-2006, 07:11 PM

not my experience...I never use paste and I get many more shaves than7-10 between honing...I strop at least 50-60 strokes before and after each shave...maybe your razors arent as sharp as you think after being honed...what does lynn think? he's the master honmeister!

ChuntaroStyle · 04-25-2006, 09:04 PM

This is a great post as I am new to straight razor shaving. I just purchased my first straight and shaved with it out of the box; not that it was honed and shave ready more due to pure excitement. I knew that I would need to take it slow (even with adrenaline pumping) and it did hurt a bit at first. I came out with a couple of nicks but for the most part okay. It was not a perfect shave but my cheeks have never been shaved closer. I have shave with it three times now and I think I have come to respect the razor enough to know that I need to get it honed to get to the next level. That will start a new learning process.

Joe Chandler · 04-25-2006, 10:37 PM

One thing to think about, too: If you're serious about straight shaving, and want to learn all aspects of this process, from honing to stropping to shaving, having a truly shave-ready razor shortens the learning curve considerably. It did for me anyway. Lets you know what it's supposed to feel like, and what you're supposed to be shooting for in your honing. How you get there is up to you, from pasted strops to Nortons, but if you never feel what a sharp one can do, how're you gonna know when you get there? I've gotten 4 from Lynn and 1 from Bill Ellis, and I can tell you, they're masters. I've gotten close a couple times (and even equalled once.

), but not consistently, but having their examples gives me something to shoot for. Just my $.02

filmecyan · 04-26-2006, 01:27 AM

At the advice of members, I've had classic shaving send my new DOVO to Lynn for sharpening, and I want ot be able to keep the best adge possible on it. I've ready through the how to's on classic shaving and looked through the help files here. I have a new Illinois razor strop. Could anyone give some info or shed light on where to find the right info of whether or not I should use paste on the hanging strop, and if so, how often. Also, for how long do I need to break the strop in with pumice?

AFDavis11 · 04-26-2006, 01:44 AM

Classicshaving has a nice how to and why section on the subject, though I don't use a pumice and rarely use strop dressing (bout once every other month). A separate strop with .5 paste is popular with my razors, but not essential.

EdinLA44 · 04-26-2006, 03:02 AM

Hi filmecyan

Since you have a brand new hanging strop, it shouldn't need anything for awhile. Most good strops are ready to go out of the box and don't need a pumice stone or any treatment with dressing.

From reading your post, it sounds like you might be a bit confused on terms. There is strop dressing that is applied to a strop and is used to help keep the leather itself in good condition. Then there is the paste, which is a mild abrasive applied to a different strop than the one you use on a daily basis to prepare the razor for shaving. This second strop with the abrasive paste is used only periodically to freshen up a razor's edge. For the pasted strop, many folks get a 4-sided paddle strop so you can apply different pastes with varying degrees of abrasiveness. Once you put an abrasive paste on a strop, it gets embedded into the leather and then can only be used for that purpose. That's why you have one strop for daily stropping, and another one (or more) for the pastes.

So for daily shaving, you would strop the razor first with the linen side and then with the leather side. After a couple of weeks or so, when you notice the razor starting to pull when you shave, then that's the time you would get the pasted strop and freshen the edge. I usually get about 10-12 shaves before I have to use the pasted strop, but my beard is on the lighter side, so your experience may differ. I hope that answers your questions.

Ed

thebigspendur · 04-26-2006, 03:42 AM

Well I'd like to put a monkey wrench into this discussion and maybe play devil's advocate but think about it, we all have to start somewhere and universally we buy the razor and the soap then the brush then the strop and then duh how do I sharpen this thing or keep it sharp or isn't it shave ready when I buy it or well I'll send it to lynn for sharpening and then what as it becomes dull?

Don't we all approach this thing from a backwards approach? Isn't honing one of the (if not the) most important and difficult things to master?

Maybe, just maybe we should worry about mastering honing before we think about actually using a straight. maybe we should recommend that newbees get an eboy special and a hone and go at it until they master the skill and then buy the real razor and all the other paraphanelia.

What do you all think about that eh?

Tony Miller · 04-26-2006, 03:45 AM

Lots of great advice here. I believe you said you bought the Illinois #827 strop. I used to carry that line and would suggest you never use pumice on that model. The #827 is Illinois' Russian model and has a smooth side back that has been pressed with ridges in order to harden the front "business" side of the strop. Basically it is compressed like many Russian strops to give a harder, denser surface. This front surface has a texture to it already since it is actually the rough "cow side" of the hide <g>. (as opposed to the "people side" of the cow we see <g>)
This rough, compressed leather will quickly become wooly textured like a terrycloth towel if pumiced.
Leave te pumice to smooth surface strops if you must pumice at all.

Tony

AFDavis11 · 04-26-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Well I'd like to put a monkey wrench into this discussion and maybe play devil's advocate but think about it, we all have to start somewhere and universally we buy the razor and the soap then the brush then the strop and then duh how do I sharpen this thing or keep it sharp or isn't it shave ready when I buy it or well I'll send it to lynn for sharpening and then what as it becomes dull?

Don't we all approach this thing from a backwards approach? Isn't honing one of the (if not the) most important and difficult things to master?

Maybe, just maybe we should worry about mastering honing before we think about actually using a straight. maybe we should recommend that newbees get an eboy special and a hone and go at it until they master the skill and then buy the real razor and all the other paraphanelia.

What do you all think about that eh?

I know, I know, ... put that in my pipe and smoke it ... LOL