Does a heavy draw require less stropping?

CJBianco · 06-23-2008, 05:52 PM

I've read that 50 X-passes is the standard pre-shave routine. Does a heavy draw require fewer passes? A lighter draw, more passes?

Thanks,
Christopher

Purvis · 06-23-2008, 08:14 PM

My being relatively new to this art form doesn't really qualify my response as authoritative, however my personal experience is such that if I have a good draw then when I do 50 I end up with a terrific shave. When I do 50 passes on a poor draw then my shave is subpar.

Sean

hoglahoo · 06-23-2008, 09:18 PM

I'd love to know if there's a direct correlation like that in your question, Chris

If you strap correctly, then the draw will be almost completely a function of the strap itself, and of the razor. I've never used a strap or a razor that doesn't offer much draw, so I'm curious to know whether or not more passes are required on such straps than on straps that produce much draw. I doubt there's much difference though

If you know you can get good draw, but you're not getting it, it's a matter of strapping technique. When my blades are flush with my strap (and when they're sharp) then I get draw. If my blade isn't flush, then not so much. And if it isn't flush, I'm not using my strap very efficiently!

English · 06-23-2008, 09:21 PM

I find a heavier draw works better with a heavier wedge blade.
A hollow ground works better with a lighter draw.

As to how many strokes on a strop, well that depends on the length of the strop and how well you strop.
but about 40 return strops on a 24" strop is usually sufficient to return a good soft edge to a blade.

CJBianco · 06-23-2008, 09:35 PM

I am curious because I own a TM Original Vegan strop [which I love], and the reviews seem to focus on its heavy draw. And it started me thinking. That's all.

Thanks,
Me

gssixgun · 06-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Now ya just threw another variable in the mix with the Vegan Strop, Chris.... I would say leave yer amount of laps the same and judge from the shave, see if more laps smooths the shave or if less laps gives you the same feel.... The other unknown variable here is the pressure that you are using on the strop, there is a sweet spot to be found.... Find that, then adjust the laps to the least amount, that gives you a nice comfortable shave....

What can I tell ya, the more you shave the better you get at the whole experience.....

CJBianco · 06-23-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Chris.... I would say leave yer amount of laps the same and judge from the shave, see if more laps smooths the shave or if less laps gives you the same feel...

Good idea. Right now I do 70,000 laps and I get a good shave. I'll try 65,980 tomorrow morning. (I hope it works. Just think of the time I'll save!)

Me =)

thebigspendur · 06-24-2008, 12:23 AM

I think draw is just a symptom of the stropping action on most strops. Horse strops usually have no draw at all. I would not alter the usual 60 passes I do whether there is huge draw or no draw. If I get no draw on my TM Latigo I know the razor is probably not shave ready but more passes won't correct that problem. I need more than that. On my Horsehide since I get no draw its just do the passes and shave.I haven't a clue with the vegan strop.

geoffreyt · 06-24-2008, 04:05 PM

I'm not a strop pro or a sharpmeister. That said, it seems to me that if the blade will sing while I strop, I'm getting a good stropping. A light touch is good. I use a pasted paddle and a TM hanging strop. There seems to be an art to having your strop in the right order, not too pasted or dressed, to be able to make your blade sing.

dylandog · 06-24-2008, 07:10 PM

I agree with bigspendur that draw is mostly a function of the type of leather, and that it doesn't indicate that fewer passes are needed. Another factor frequently overlooked here is the amount of humidity in your bathroom. I notice the draw is markedly heavier if I shower before stropping and shaving.

But once you know a strop well and can control for these factors you'll notice that whatever the initial draw, the 'sticky' feeling while stropping increases subtly as you get it near to perfection.

I use a vintage horse strop with zero draw, at least initially. I do about 40 or 50 fast passes and when I begin to get some light draw I know it's ready. If I can't get any draw by even 60 or 70 laps, nine times out of ten I discover that the edge is getting subpar and it's back to the hones.

Whatever strop you're using try to get it to talk to you.

hoglahoo · 06-24-2008, 07:16 PM

I am still wondering if a lack of draw requires more passes than heavy draw

Does a razor require more passes on a slick strap than on a sticky strap?

dylandog · 06-24-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Does a razor require more passes on a slick strap than on a sticky strap?

In my experience, absolutely not.

sicboater · 06-28-2008, 11:35 PM

Hmmm...
I have two strops that I use, a 3" TM buffed horsehide with linen, and an Illinois 827 russian. The Horsehide has 0 draw compared to the 827 which draws as thought coated in syrup. I have noticed that I have to go for more passes on the horsehide alone rather than the 827 alone. I don't know that the draw is making the difference as the leathers have much different surfaces too. The linen's couldn't be more different as well. The 827 has the standard Illinois linen component which is like a thick, linen textured plastic; the TM has natural flax linen which is a lot softer. I am slowly learning the strops feedbacks and uses so I am no expert yet; however, I will say that having a wall full of strops sure looks cool in the bathroom!

PuFFaH · 07-08-2008, 09:36 PM

I am a firm believer in "right tool for the job" idea.
Russian/Latigo leathers are great renovators and general all rounders.
Cordovan and horse, calf etc are finishers and delicate edge specialists.

Draw on Russian and Latigo is medium to heavy.
Draw on horse etc is nill to light.

I would conclude that draw has a marked effect on an edge once damage has taken effect or if slightly overhoned etc, where horse etc would require more reps to get the same result. Horse etc having less draw and texture is the Echer of the strop world. linen imo is a must combo with a Cordovan/horse etc strop to give you the variation.
I have a horse/Latigo combo from TM that works great in this respect. Big up Tony!!

PuFF

Jimbo · 07-08-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuFFaH

I am a firm believer in "right tool for the job" idea.
Russian/Latigo leathers are great renovators and general all rounders.
Cordovan and horse, calf etc are finishers and delicate edge specialists.

Draw on Russian and Latigo is medium to heavy.
Draw on horse etc is nill to light.

I would conclude that draw has a marked effect on an edge once damage has taken effect or if slightly overhoned etc, where horse etc would require more reps to get the same result. Horse etc having less draw and texture is the Echer of the strop world. linen imo is a must combo with a Cordovan/horse etc strop to give you the variation.
I have a horse/Latigo combo from TM that works great in this respect. Big up Tony!!

PuFF

*Sigh* Here comes the STRAD. And just when I'd finished with my HAD too

James.

CJBianco · 07-08-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuFFaH

I am a firm believer in "right tool for the job" idea.
Russian/Latigo leathers are great renovators and general all rounders.
Cordovan and horse, calf etc are finishers and delicate edge specialists.

Draw on Russian and Latigo is medium to heavy.
Draw on horse etc is nill to light.

I would conclude that draw has a marked effect on an edge once damage has taken effect or if slightly overhoned etc, where horse etc would require more reps to get the same result. Horse etc having less draw and texture is the Echer of the strop world. linen imo is a must combo with a Cordovan/horse etc strop to give you the variation.
I have a horse/Latigo combo from TM that works great in this respect. Big up Tony!!

PuFF

Are you kidding me? I need two strops? (There goes my daughter's college fund.)

Me

PuFFaH · 07-09-2008, 03:53 PM

OMG... haven't you figured it out yet?!!!!

You need at least 10 of everything....

PuFF

johnny_angel · 07-22-2008, 04:22 AM

Honestly, I don't think the draw has any direct relation to what it does to the edge. I've used several slick strops and several with varying degrees of draw, it doesn't seem to have any effect on the amount of stropping required.

My only theory is this: if you're fairly new you might unconsciously apply more pressure on a slick strop, mistakenly thinking it isn't doing anything. If you do that you can strop all day but you'll just dull the edge. Listen to the other posters who talk about the sound it makes - that is a much better indicator of what you're doing to the edge.

zepplin · 07-23-2008, 02:38 PM

I have two strops: A TM Red/Latigo & a TM #1 Horsehide. The Red/Latigo has lotz of draw; the #1 Horsehide has little to none.

Regardless of the grind of the razor I am using, I'll do 40/50 on the Red/Latigo first, and finish up with at least 20 on the horsehide.

This seems to work beautifully for me, regardless of what razor I am using.

Steve

Chimensch · 07-23-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuFFaH

OMG... haven't you figured it out yet?!!!!

You need at least 10 of everything....

PuFF

When I first read this, I thought you were kidding ... then I started to count: Illinois Imperial Russian linen and leather, Livi loom strop linen and leather and a four-sided Thiers paddle strop and I'm already up to 8 ...