[Ben325e]

Hey guys, I've been reading everything I can for the past couple of days ever since finding out about the site from a friend over at Knifeforums.com, and I'm really digging all the info on this site.

I've never used a straight razor before, but I'd like to get started. A different friend on knife forums is sending me a piece of Keith's (the owner of Hand America) horse leather, and it's approx. 3" x 24", and another piece that's 6" x 14". I'll be using the 6x14 piece to make a bench strop (I guess the term on this forum is paddle strop) to use with my chromium oxide, which will be 3x11. I'll have some left over from that piece.

The 3x24 piece I'll use for making a hanging strop, and I'll be taking some of the left over pieces from the bench strop to make the two "end pieces", which will be riveted to the leather on either end, that hold the D rings and the clip.

With the horse leather, will I have to "break in" the leather with pumice as I've read?

Also, if anyone can point me in the direction of an online vendor where I can buy top quality D rings, the "chicago screws", and other associated hardware, I'd very much appreciate it.

If anyone would like to sell one of their "practice strops", please PM me.

Any and all info to get started is welcome!

Thanks again,


Ben Rivenbark

[Doc]

I buy my D rings and stuff at my local western tack store you might try there first.

[Bruce]

Or Tandy Leather Co.

[thebigspendur]

I don't think you really need to break in a strop. Years ago I used to think you did and used the rolling pin and glass bottle trick but these days I realize it isn't necessary. Unless you get some cheapo strop with leather like cardboard which you will not have with a handamerica Horsehide.

[kelbro]

The blade of your hand rubbed up and down the strop before use will heat it up a little and give you a good, flat, clean surface to strop with.

[Chris L]

Is the leather still in it's "raw" state? Meaning, has it been finished/sanded yet? If not, then it's probably the same Hand American horsehide that I was able to get from Hand American a few months back. I got 3 of the horse butt strips (what's left over after the "shells" are removed. These strips were approx 5' long and at their thickest point approx 12". The grain side of this leather IMO is not suitable for making a fine leather strop and the "flesh" side as it's called (the side with a high suede nap) is also quite rough.

The grain side on these strips have a fair amount of fat wrinkles, scars, bumps, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's great leather that's as tough as nails. I've cut all strips to 24" by 2.5" and have probably 8-9 strips?

Long lead in, I know, but in answer to your question, IF your leather is in the same natural state as the horsehide I have, you'd be better off hand finishing the surface. I used a flat sanding block and 150-200 grit sandpaper (not wet/dry as it loads too quickly for this, but the regular sandpaper). Sand, sand and sand and sand some more. This gave me additional respect for Tony Miller and Kenrup. Hand finishing a strop to get an utterly silky surface (which I have) is HARD WORK and takes a lot of time. Also, this leather can be a bit wavy; more than I'd like. It needs to be flattened as a final step. The results though are fabulous. I'll try and post a few pics.

Chris L

[Ben325e]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Chris, you're dead on with the leather. The big brown truck visited me today, and the leather is exactly as you describe. I don't have a problem with hand finishing it - in fact that's what's so appealing about it to me. I love to make stuff "mine". When I get a razor, I'll definitely be making my own scales.

I'll pick up some regular sandpaper tomorrow and get started, as all I've got right now is various wet/dry grits. I'm assuming that I sand the smooth grain side, and not the flesh side. Is this right?

Pics of what the final product should look like would be extremely helpful, if you've got the inclination and the time. If not, that's understandable, too.

Thanks!

Ben

[Chris L]

Here come the pics:

First pic: The "grain" side of the Hand American horse butt leather. It's hard to tell from the 2 dimensional picture, but the fat wrinkles found on parts of the leather are quite raised and are not up to par as is in my book.

Next pic is the "flesh" side of the leather. Very uneven. Even for using the flesh side as a canvas/linen alternative, I like the flesh side to be more uniform than this. We're talking about fine edges of delicate instruments here!

Now we're getting into the good stuff! This next pic is the the grain side, but hand finished and oh so silky smooth. A very subtle nubuck finish. It gives a subtle but wonderful draw. The squiggle lines are simply the areas where just before the picture was taken I ran two fingers down the strop. Rub the other way, and the squiggles disappear. I did this to show the finish. Sanding to this level and uniformity took almost 2 hours. Granted it was my first attempt, but I could see this easily taking me over an hour on the other strips I'll finish in the same manner.

Remember that ugly "flesh" side? Here it is. Totally uniform. More of a nap than the nubuck grain side, but not by that much. Virtually identical to the finish on a Dovo 3" Extra Wide strop. Which makes sense since those strops actually are the flesh side rather than the grain side. This side can also be used as a finish strop prior to shaving rather than just a prep strop like a canvas or linen. This was also achieved by hand sanding.

Hand American hard felt as an alternative to canvas/linen matched to the horsehide strop. When both are held together during stropping on the leather, the heft is a true pleasure.

My personal favorite for strops......the barber style ends. Definitely.


I hope this helps. Cutting this extremely tough leather is difficult; well, it's difficult to cut straight lines. I did not buy a leather cutting knife. I used a rotary cutter my wife uses for her sewing. Razor sharp hefty circular blades and a straight edge were my cutting tools. I was able to cut straight lines in this leather like butter.

Chris L

[Tony Miller]

Now you realize why horsehide strops, or any for that matter cost what they do. I know from my horse butt strips I can typically cut one good strop, if I get lucky two pieces, if unlucky none. I use a template to find a single fairly flawless spot. By flawless I mean flat and smooth. There may be color variations but I avoid raised scars. I think Keith once mentioned a yield of one piece as well on his website.The hand sanding, scrubbing, etc... can add lots of time on top of the material costs.

Even with my Latigo material I often only get a 50% yield from a hide.

Leather is reasonably inexpensive BUT you have to pay for the good along with the bad.

Tony

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Now you realize why horsehide strops, or any for that matter cost what they do. I know from my horse butt strips I can typically cut one good strop, if I get lucky two pieces, if unlucky none. I use a template to find a single fairly flawless spot. By flawless I mean flat and smooth. There may be color variations but I avoid raised scars. I think Keith once mentioned a yield of one piece as well on his website.The hand sanding, scrubbing, etc... can add lots of time on top of the material costs.

Even with my Latigo material I often only get a 50% yield from a hide.

Leather is reasonably inexpensive BUT you have to pay for the good along with the bad.

Tony

Thanks for commenting here, Tony. You're absolutely correct that this experimental project of mine has given me a new perspective on what's needed and what goes into making a good strop.

Chris L

[kevint]

Hey fellas,

I have looked at HandAmerican. Is their site often down? I waited several days and eventually decided to stop by the local Woodcraft store and pick up another small sheet of the HandAmerican product they sell- A ~6 x 12 sheet of compressed oak tan...

Questions: When will HA site be updated? Do they offer compressed leather in long lengths for razor? Will Chris L who invited me here from Japanese Woodworking Forum offer a strip of his horse butt for minimal compensation? Does Tony Miller sell his linen upgrade seperately? What sizes of hard felt does HA offer? What is it made of?

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by kevint

Hey fellas,

I have looked at HandAmerican. Is their site often down? I waited several days and eventually decided to stop by the local Woodcraft store and pick up another small sheet of the HandAmerican product they sell- A ~6 x 12 sheet of compressed oak tan...

Questions: When will HA site be updated? Do they offer compressed leather in long lengths for razor? Will Chris L who invited me here from Japanese Woodworking Forum offer a strip of his horse butt for minimal compensation? Does Tony Miller sell his linen upgrade seperately? What sizes of hard felt does HA offer? What is it made of?

Hey Kevin, I didn't realize you came from the Japanese Woodworking Forum. You guys were very welcoming and were very generous in offering your information regarding honing woodworking tools on the Shapton Ceramic on Glass stones. The info given to me by you guys on that site sealed the deal on me taking the Shapton glass stone plunge back when Shapton was still a fringe word in our honing purposes. Really then, given the surge of Shapton glass stone users for razors.....SRP has you guys to thank.

Here's what I can say about my personal Hand American experience. I'll say first off and very clearly, I do not discourage anyone from buying from Hand American. Again, I will only speak of my personal account of the horse butt transaction. I placed an original order and didn't receive the order for so long I thought maybe I was never going to get it. This was even after several acknowledged emails back and forth; finally, I filed a Paypal dispute and Keith made good and all was/is forgiven on my end. He told me, and I believe it's fairly common knowledge, that Hand American is transitioning to wholesale supply (like they have to Woodcraft, etc) which I take to mean at some point in the future, no sales through a Hand American website? I have no idea when their site will be back up. I hope it does come back. And, I hope I'm wrong about the possibility of no Hand American sales through their website. It would be great if Keith could swing on over here to SRP and maybe comment on what the plans are for Hand American.


As such, I feel the horse butt I did get is hard to come by for us. Keith was nice enough to give me a bit more than I ordered as well as a bit more of the hard felt for the very long delay in getting my order out. It shouldn't be hard to come by, but because of it's apparent scarcity, it seems to be in very limited supply to us. I bought the horse butt knowing full well it would almost assuredly be a one time thing but I was buying it to make a handful of finished strops for the experience, the satisfaction and for fun. I have the one strop I've completely finished that I'm using and "testing" and only 7 unfinished strips left. And only 3 hard felt strips. I feel guilty in saying this since I like to share, but I've got too little to do that. Sorry guys. If I think the strops turn out as great as the one I'm using, I'll most likely sell a few on SRP.

Do you have a Tandy Leather store anywhere near you, Kevin? I bought a 2.5" x 50" heavy cowhide strip for less than $10. (I think it was a sale price) and from what I saw from the few I looked at on the hook, including the one I bought, they were flawless. Creamy picture perfect grain surface. I don't remember the weight, but it's heavy and pretty inflexible. But, after less than five minutes of basically making an undulating wave with it in my hands back and forth, back and forth, without creasing the leather, it was already more pliable (read: I think it will be great strop leather). The store nearest me is still about a 3 hour round trip and in a dying strip mall in not the worst by any means, but also not the greatest part of town.

I've heard others advocate ordering such strips from Tandy Leather off the net, but I've heard others say you can get crap leather since you don't know what you're buying until you get it.

I rambled!

If I had a ton of guys say they would like the idea of "one of us" (me) visually inspecting and approving of the Tandy 2.5"x50" cowhide strips first hand and would be interested in buying 22-24" strips for strops, I'd consider buying what they had in stock and just rounding up for gas and time. I don't know that there's enough demand to make it worthwhile for us. To hang them on the rack, they just punched about a 1/4" hole right in the leather about an inch down from one of the ends. If it really is 50", after trimming off that and and cutting the strip in half, finished strop leather would probably only be two strips around 21 or 22".

Chris L

[Ben325e]

Chris, Thanks so much for your information. For a beginning strop maker, this has been invaluable. The leather my friend sent me (he's not very good at guessing measurements apparently!) only yielded a piece that was 3x11 (perfect for my bench strop!) and another that's 1.75 x 18, after it's been cut evenly and squared. So, this will still be good practice for me, and I could end up with a nice travel or starter strop, I suppose.

Tony, the cosmetically challenged horse butt isn't for sale is it? PM me if you like!

Thanks again,

Ben

[kevint]

No worries. I was only 1/2 serious There is a Tandy shop in town they have both veg tan and red latigo in the strips you describe. To me the latigo looks like a better prospect, the veg I saw tended to wrinkle.

For the time being I think I'll go to work on a one foot hanging strop with the HA material I have. It has already been mentioned to me that 16 is considered minimum, still I think I'll give it a go.

Are there any other sources for proper cloth or felt?

That is Hap Stanley's forum over there. Great talent and a few good discussions on natural stones that are worth reading even if your not into woodworking.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by kevint

For the time being I think I'll go to work on a one foot hanging strop with the HA material I have. It has already been mentioned to me that 16 is considered minimum, still I think I'll give it a go.

Using some sort of fastener, at least on the hanging end (the easiest and least expensive probably being a "D" ring also from Tandy), will mean you'll lose some of that 12". I say why not experiment with making a hanger out of the piece you got from Woodcraft (I bought some of that myself awhile back. Very nice leather); I think you'll get tired of the short strop distance pretty quickly. Still, it would be fun and a great way to practice.

Are there any other sources for proper cloth or felt?

I've got to tell you, for a hanging strop, my "jury is still out" on whether it really does make for an equal or superlative pre-leather strop to canvas/linen. For full disclosure, I only own one linen strop, an Irish Linen vintage Hess Hair Milk Lab linen strop and although I've used it on razors that are not my best, I don't consider it in good enough condition for me to be an experienced enough canvas/linen user to comment since I have not/will not use it on all my razors.

Back to the hard felt.......I've been impressed at how it brings back edges on wedges and "sets" them for the leather. So far I don't feel the same way for full or extra hollows. The felt surface just feels too rough for the more flexible blades. I have not yet formed a concrete decision on the felt though. But...I would LOVE to find a market for good old fashioned vintage style linen. Not a strap, but the seamless one piece linen "hose" like the vintage Hess I have. I doubt such a market exists any longer.

That is Hap Stanley's forum over there. Great talent and a few good discussions on natural stones that are worth reading even if your not into woodworking.

I couldn't agree more on the great info for any natural stone lover on THIS SITE

Howard Schechter and Hap Stanley are putting out a Shapton Ceramic on Glass razor honing DVD this fall. It should be very cool.

Chris L

[kevint]

Chris I have a plan. I believe I will only loose 1 inch. First I am going to make a handle and on the hanging end probably a copper clip to hold the swivel. Too bad no one answered my request for cool / unusual strop hardware. I wonder if I should sand it- thanks for showing me that. Or just leave it as is

I had to read your second paragraph twice. I think you are saying the jury is still out as to whether felt is equal to linen.

I wonder if I could coax enough felt from an old western hat to fit this shorty...probably not

[Tony Miller]

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Tony, the cosmetically challenged horse butt isn't for sale is it? PM me if you like!

Thanks again,

Ben

Ben,
I really would not want to sell the bad stuff. It was pulled out because it is unsuitable. Smooth, reasonably pretty pieces becomce Artisans, stained smooth pieces go into pasted hanging strops once or twice a year and anything with bumps and ridges gets tossed or small acceptable areas go into making paddles.

I typically do not sell materials anyway other than replacement pieces to repair my own products.

Tony

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by kevint

I had to read your second paragraph twice. I think you are saying the jury is still out as to whether felt is equal to linen.

I probably could have been more clear. You're correct, only speaking from my personal experience, obviously, I have yet to test the hard felt for hanging strops enough to form a definitive positive or negative opinion on how I feel it performs. I'll keep testing though.

Chris L