Having a hard time getting a smooth, sharp edge.

[Sean]

I thought about posting this in the “Bevel Refreshing” thread, but I think this may go in a slightly different direction and I don’t want to derail the other thread.

This is my first attempt to refurbish an old razor. I got an old Mark Cross (Sheffield England) straight razor from an antique store for a few dollars. I should have taken a “before” picture for reference.

I have a set of Kramer/Zwilling glass-ceramic synthetic stones (400, 1K, 3K, 5K and 10K with a sink bridge). An Imperia La Rocca natural stone, an old Norton HB6, an Heirloom Strop and a DMT D8C for lapping. I also have an affordable 400-1000 power USB microscope which allows me to see what I’m doing.

When I got the razor it was about 7/8, stained and had been poorly honed, but had no rust or chips etc. Because the edge was severely uneven, with a “smile” and a “frown” it took a lot of work to smooth things out. Ultimately, I ended up taking about 1/4 off the edge, resulting in about a 5/8 final width. Because I knew I would be taking so much width off, I chose to leave the spine untaped, allowing the spine and edge to come to a new place together.

After getting the curves removed and getting the razor to lay flat on a flat surface, I began working on honing the edge. As I worked up from one stone to the next I would check my progress using the microscope. I have spent several hours on this, but it seems I am simply unable to get the bevel to end up scratch-free. It is full of scratches and definitely not polished. The edge is fairly nice, but not where I want it. I can easily shave arm hair if the blade is touching my arm, but I can’t lop hairs off mid-strand, nor will it pass the hanging hair test.

I’m unsure if I am using too much pressure, not spending enough time on each stone, if my stones are actually of lesser quality than I thought, if it’s a combination of all three, or something else all together.

I shaved with it and was only able to do one pass. I could feel that the amount of pulling would have resulted in razor burn if I had done a second pass.

I have another razor which I purchased from a respected member on this forum. I looked at that razor under the microscope and it has a mirror polish and a beautiful edge...and it shaves wonderfully. I’m sure I could contact the member through private message and get some guidance, but I thought I’d ask here first. Maybe others can benefit from this as well.

Though conversation can’t replace hands-on experience and in-person training, I am open to any and all critiques, criticisms or suggestions.

 

[Sean]

Here are some pictures. First is a side-by-side of the three razors whose edges will be compared.


The next three are the edges of the above razors from left to right, magnified approximately 1000X. Though imperfections are obvious here, they are not visible unless magnified.







I have shaved with and stropped the middle blade numerous times, it is likely that when I received it, its edge looked more like the first image. The last picture is of the edge that I’ve been working on.

Also, the last image is not at a different magnification, all three were taken in the same way/setting. It has a much wider edge because I messed up the geometry while trying to remove the smile/frown. The result is a cutting edge approximately 3X wider than the others.

 

[Sean]

Here is the microscope set up that was used for the pictures. It plugs into a computer USB port. (It was only about $25 including shipping.)


Here are the sharpening stones that I am using.

 

[ARFFSHAVER]

Your bevel isn't set most likely the cause.. no matter how much work I do on any other stone besides ur bevel is a waste if the bevel isn't set

 

[Sean]

Your bevel isn't set most likely the cause.. no matter how much work I do on any other stone besides ur bevel is a waste if the bevel isn't set

Thank you for the feedback. To get the bevel set, should I apply 2-3 layers of tape to the spine to increase the angle of the blade on the stone, creating a narrower secondary bevel?

 

[ARFFSHAVER]

Don't leave the 1k until your passing some type of bevel test TNT TPT.

 

[Sean]

I’ve heard of the HHT, hanging hair test, but what does TNT TPT stand for?

 

[Ols67]

Thumb Nail Test...Thumb Pad Test. I like the TNT and the Cherry Tomato test. I recommend looking them up on YouTube. That’s what I initially did, and they aren’t hard to figure out.

Search for “Straight Razor Bevel Test.”


vr

Matt

 

[Sean]

Thank you Arffshaver and Matt. I’ll check those out.

 

[Bob]

I think your magnification is over the top, a lit loupe of around 30x or 40x is plenty, anything at 1k is going to look rough. The correct bevel set is the main thing when honing and it can take time, if it is really bad level drop down to a 600 stone, then Ik, the 600 will get more steel off faster, once you get the set you should try max out your next in progression...and so on, you should be able to feel the stone cutting much slower...that's when you move up, I am totally lost as to how you get a smile and a frown on one razor, can you explain it better ?.
In the lower grit stones use some pressure, then less and less as you feel the stone maxing out, At around the 8k I would only use slight pressure, and less again on the 10 and 12k until it is only the weight of the blade doing X strokes. After a 12k I use a 15k and this really polishes the edges, then dia spray on felt strop, then crox again on felt, clean shell leather to finish and the edge is superb, don't forget to clean the blade between pastes/ sprays to avoid cross contamination, lastly, you will get there, some blades can throw up problems to slow you down. Oh! try make sure you count the laps on each side, it can be a little out but not like 15 strokes, after bevel set count as close as you can.

 

[Sean]

Bob, thank you for the detailed suggestions. I will try your tips. When I said it had a smile and frown, the blade had a convex (smile) curve from about the halfway point to the end, and a concave (frown) curve from the halfway point toward the handle. I don’t know it got that way, almost like it had been honed on a stone that was higher in the middle than the edges, then the passes must have swooped, wearing down the end unevenly. It’s been a challenge, but I’m learning from it.

 

[edmartin54]

I start on a 1K with circle strokes (30-40) each side, then at least 25 'Japanese' strokes (25 up and down, then switch sides, repeat), then at least 25 X strokes. When I move to the next stone, I start with circles strokes and that removes the scratches from the previous stone and I do this with each subsequent stone (4K, 8K, 12K).