neiasden
Member
there you go lol. I would be one of those. if it cuts your arm hair it should cut whiskers? the difference would not be real noticeable to me. so just because it cuts doesn't mean it's shave ready. what does make it shave ready?
Anybody have luck buying 'Shave Ready' blades on the bay'
- Thread starter Bogie
- Start date
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
I’ve never used a 15K or Escher or Jnat. I’ve finished razors on a 12K Naniwa and they shaved pretty good but a friend showed me a 20k Suehiro and what it could do so I had to have one
neiasden
Member
so would you say we can consider a razor shave ready when it has been honed on a 12,000 gritstone or higher?
the reason I ask is so, when I ask these people , I actually have enough knowledge to question it LOL
it is so subjective you can't get a real answer so I'm just going to take the answers of the people I know know enough about it. I'm going to go with 12,000 shapton or naniwa
if I ever announced that I have a shave ready razor, that's what it will be. I never knew if you had to have a Japanese natural, a ceramic, an Arkansas this or a Tokyo that, but I see a lot of debates on shave ready LOL
I'm guessing some people would complain if it was overly shave ready LOL.. this razor is too sharp to shave with.
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
I would have to say it would depend on the person using the hone and what is expected. When I started honing I shaved off the Naniwa1K-3K- 8K and thought it was pretty good. Then I acquired the 12K Naniwa and saw what I was missing. I then went to see my friend who showed me the Suehiro 20K and what it could do. It's often been said once you go down this rabbit hole there's no end. For me the 20K was the end. I get very good shaves off it. Now I'm no where near my friends ability to hone. He's as far as I'm concerned the best at honing.
When starting on a recently acquired razor I first us the 1K to set the bevel then the 3-5-8-12K Naniwa and finish with the Suehiro 20K. I'm no expert but I get an edge that I can shave off of.
When starting on a recently acquired razor I first us the 1K to set the bevel then the 3-5-8-12K Naniwa and finish with the Suehiro 20K. I'm no expert but I get an edge that I can shave off of.
neiasden
Member
great answer. thank you. sounds like I'm going down the same path you did LOL all I've ever used are synthetics, I have used a few different ones, but I like the Norton is fine with me. I use the one three eight twelve something like that. I think it's shave ready but I've read some people's reviews, someone is saying that they claimed it was shaved ready and it shaped like a butter knife lol. I would not want someone to think that and it got me wondering, what is shave ready.
to stop I don't think there is an actual, shave ready. what I have concurred is anything finished on a 12 k can be called shave ready. a lot of people are happy with eight, I get it, there is no answer. it seems like the majority of you guys feel the same way. I haven't asked anywhere else, I had no way to get a hold of that guy on eBay who left that feedback for that guy LOL
I had talked to the guy who was selling it and he used pretty much what we've talked about and said it was shaved ready. the guy who bought it didn't think so. someone said he may have just been trying to get it for free or something, but it still got me wondering what is shave ready. I figured it was when it cut arm hair that's when mine is shaved ready LOL
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
After honing I ck an edge with the hanging hair test. Since I don’t have any hair on my head I use one of my wife’s hair out of her brush. She is blonde so her hair is very light. When holding the hair hanging down if the edge clips it easily then I test shave. The thinner and lighter the hair the sharper the edge has to be. Or at least it works for me
Leatherstockings
Well-known member
This thread has me thinking about my understanding of honing and shaving. Over the past couple of days I've come up with some criteria I feel must be met to achieve the results indicative of a shave ready razor. Please bear with me and keep in mind I think it requries an experienced straight razor user to assess shave ready status. For what it's worth, I have been shaving a straight razor for ten years and have watched multiple honemeisters in person as well as being guided through a complete razor honing by one of them.
Critera:
Razor needs to be in good repair (no rust, chips, broken scales).
Bevel must be consistently set along entire edge (no microchipping, dull spots, rolled edge, etc.) This can be verified by inspecting edge under magnification, feel of blade on hone, pushing slurry ahead of entire edge while honing. My belief is this requires knowledge and experience.
A proper progression needs to be followed from bevel set through higher grits. The progression can vary. It is not necessarily a set number of strokes on each higher grit stone, but making sure the edge is meeting the sight and feel requirements stated earlier. The razor should only be moved to a higher grit when it has met these criteria.
The razor needs to be finished on a stone higher than 8k. Grit rating is not consistent across different brands so I don't have an absolute number. For example, I have heard one of the new synthetics at 10k is finer than a Naniwa 12k. I have also skipped over natural stones to keep things simple. In addition, different users have their own preferences on what they like in regard to smoothness so a 12k might be sufficient for one person while another prefers 20k.
The razor needs to be stropped properly (an edge can be damaged with improper stropping).
Results:
During the shave test the razor needs to cut through all stubble on that stroke.
The razor should not feel like it's tugging or pulling hair on that stroke.
The razor should not feel irritating or nick the skin on the pass.
Note that some honers will shave test a razor using multiple passes, i.e., going from with the grain to cross the grain to against the grain. In addition, they might be testing more than one razor at a time, shaving one side of the face with each razor. Again, it takes an experienced straight razor user to accurately conduct a shave test. Poor technique like bad blade angle, improper lathering, etc. will affect the quality of the shave.
Hopefully, this doesn't come across as pompous or all-knowing. I just have some thoughts on shave ready based on experience. I feel there is a minimum criteria to be met for desired results. I'm sure there is a lot more that could be added or opinions differing from mine. My suggestion for people really wanting to learn what shave read really is would be to 1) have a razor honed by an acknowledged professional and shave with it and 2) watch multiple pro honers conduct shave tests on Youtube.
Critera:
Razor needs to be in good repair (no rust, chips, broken scales).
Bevel must be consistently set along entire edge (no microchipping, dull spots, rolled edge, etc.) This can be verified by inspecting edge under magnification, feel of blade on hone, pushing slurry ahead of entire edge while honing. My belief is this requires knowledge and experience.
A proper progression needs to be followed from bevel set through higher grits. The progression can vary. It is not necessarily a set number of strokes on each higher grit stone, but making sure the edge is meeting the sight and feel requirements stated earlier. The razor should only be moved to a higher grit when it has met these criteria.
The razor needs to be finished on a stone higher than 8k. Grit rating is not consistent across different brands so I don't have an absolute number. For example, I have heard one of the new synthetics at 10k is finer than a Naniwa 12k. I have also skipped over natural stones to keep things simple. In addition, different users have their own preferences on what they like in regard to smoothness so a 12k might be sufficient for one person while another prefers 20k.
The razor needs to be stropped properly (an edge can be damaged with improper stropping).
Results:
During the shave test the razor needs to cut through all stubble on that stroke.
The razor should not feel like it's tugging or pulling hair on that stroke.
The razor should not feel irritating or nick the skin on the pass.
Note that some honers will shave test a razor using multiple passes, i.e., going from with the grain to cross the grain to against the grain. In addition, they might be testing more than one razor at a time, shaving one side of the face with each razor. Again, it takes an experienced straight razor user to accurately conduct a shave test. Poor technique like bad blade angle, improper lathering, etc. will affect the quality of the shave.
Hopefully, this doesn't come across as pompous or all-knowing. I just have some thoughts on shave ready based on experience. I feel there is a minimum criteria to be met for desired results. I'm sure there is a lot more that could be added or opinions differing from mine. My suggestion for people really wanting to learn what shave read really is would be to 1) have a razor honed by an acknowledged professional and shave with it and 2) watch multiple pro honers conduct shave tests on Youtube.
Leatherstockings
Well-known member
I believe I used the same individual's Suehiro 20k when I visited him and he guided me through honing one of my straight razors. The Suhiro provided a really nice, smooth edge. I would probable buy one if it was cheaper.
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
If we have the same friend he’s a good one
Leatherstockings
Well-known member
I really don't know him well, but would like to call him a friend. If it's the same man he's one of the original SRPers.
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
When I started honing razors I was lucky enough to get to talk to him about hones and what would be a good set up for me. From that day we talked many times about honing and razors. I was able to visit him a couple or three times and get to set in while he honed razors and I learn quite a lot. He's a very gracious host and enjoys teaching the tricks of the trade. You can watch all the videos you want but to be there in person and watch makes a lot difference. The sound of the blade going over the stone makes a difference. Sometimes light pressure is really no pressure and heavy pressure can be too much. I hope if health allows to be able to visit him again.
neiasden
Member
you do not seem pompous at all. that's a very good reply. I gained some knowledge from it. thank you for your reply
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
Shave ready doesn't just mean the razor. A person needs to get his (or Her) face ready to shave. You just can't through on some soap and start scraping.
Leatherstockings
Well-known member
I have seen people doing straight razor shaving videos with minimal lather and I just don't get it. When I get the lather wrong, which sometimes happens when sampling a new soap, and it dries out or dissipates the razor doesn't cut smoothly. It tugs and stutters.
neiasden
Member
now there's an answer!, bravo. I hear a lot of the same answers which leads me to believe that is a correct answer. but this is the first time I've heard somebody add the rest of the story. so it would not be fair to blame the honer for something that's out of their hands.LOL. awesome answer. thanks
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
When a person first starts straight shaving it takes time and patience and practice to get a feel for what a razor can do. Just a little too much angle can pull and skip then be colorful
RHensley
Resident Hand Model
When a person first starts straight shaving it takes time and patience and practice to get a feel for what a razor can do. Just a little too much angle can pull and skip then be colorful
most people start out with way too much angle.When a person first starts straight shaving it takes time and patience and practice to get a feel for what a razor can do. Just a little too much angle can pull and skip then be colorful
Bogie
I'm not looking at you !
A 'shave ready' razor will give poor results when the pre-shave routine is lacking. A beard not properly softened and hydrated, not properly lathered will give lousy shave results. A good edge, a properly prepared beard, and a good lather will give great results if the person wielding the blade has some degree of proper technique. Without these thing in the mix, its is easy to blame the blade/edge.