Thiers Issard Steels

[drmoss_ca]

I recalled there was a change in TI steel, and wanted to look into it. A search for 'carbonsong' led me to https://vintagebladesllc.com/pages/straight-razor-info and this remarkable statement:



They seem to be saying there is no difference between the old 'silver steel' (cough, cough - no silver) and the new 'C135 carbonsong'. Is this true, or are they talking through their arse? All my TI's are ⩾15 years old, so none are of the putatively new era. Or do they mean that razors sold these days as 'silver steel' are made from C135 just as the rest of the line are?

I contacted Thiers Issard/Sabatier and asked:

I have been collecting and using TI razors for twenty years, and I have some very special ones (8/8 damascus limited edition from 2005, and the Pierre Thiers Hand-Forged, a seven day set of 6/8 Eagles and so on). I have a question about steels, though, and I hope you will be kind enough to answer it. Most of my TI razors date from the days of "Sheffield Silver Steel" and this is a very hard steel, which takes time to hone to perfection. When I get it right, it is wonderful! About 2007, you introduced Silverwing steel, and it was marketed as having a higher carbon content, ~1.35%, I believe. I have never seen this compared, in terms of alloy percentages, with the old silver steel. I have read that some people believe it to be the same steel, but with a new name. Can you throw any light on this for me, please?
I ask now as I have been going through my Super Gnomes (four 5/8, and two 6/8). My oldest 5/8 has a stamped tang, and the younger ones have the tang laser-etched. I find the old one takes a finer edge than the younger ones. I think the 6/8 Super Gnomes came out much later than the 5/8 (maybe my book on straight razors which suggested the 5/8 Super Gnome as the ideal beginner's razor had something to do with that?) Are the 6/8 Super Gnomes silver steel, or did they come out only in the silverwing era?
I hope someone can take the time to help me with these questions. I don't want any industrial secrets(!), just to understand my collection a bit better.
Thank you,

As you can see, my memory failed me in the name of the steel. But I got a quick reply from the daughter of the owner:

Hello,

Thank you for your email.

Our carbon steel is called C135 and we have been using this steel for many years now for the majority of our razors

Our founder Pierre Thiers used in the 1900s a steel called Jacob Holtzer cast steel. (different from C135 STEEL) We still have some blades with this steel that we sell in a special range called CHATELLERAULT

I believe you have Jacob holtzer cast steel razors in your nice collection !

Regarding the super gnome razors, I do not know much as when my dad took over the company in 1985, super gnome razors were already sold in size 2/8 and 3/8 only.
So 5/8 and 6/8 super gnome razors youhave a quite old.
Our 2/8 and 3/8 super gnome carry the same steel, that is c135.

Hope this will help

Have a very nice day

So I clarified my mistake:

Thank you very much for your reply. I made a mistake and used the name 'Silverwing' which were a limited edition of razors sold in America (~2007) using what was then a new (or just with a new name) steel, which was called "Carbonsong." Carbonsong was 1.35% carbon, and my real question is whether this is the same steel as what was previously described as Sheffield Silver Steel, which was lead-hardened? I expect no one uses molten lead any more! The Super Gnomes I have were all bought new in the early 2000's, so I think that they were made more recently.

By the way, the 'cast steel' process invented by Benjamin Huntsman is a fascinating piece of history, and I do have some Sheffield razors from the early 1800's made from it, and they still shave perfectly well. I think only my hand-forged Pierre Thiers historical edition will be made from it, and it is certainly a very hard steel as shown by the amount of honing it takes! The present day CHATELLERAULT razors are made from it too? They are sold here as 'designed by master steel worker Jacob Holtzer' but they are not advertised as being made from a different steel. I shall have to buy one!

Thank you again,

I hope she can say for sure if Carbonsong is just a new name for the old steel. Interesting fact about the cast steel used originally! I'm very, very doubtful it is used in the Chatellerault line these days. Maybe Holtzer's design, but stocks of cast steel lying around? If there were some historical blanks left over I'm sure they would be sold at a high price with some fanfare (like the TIPTLES, which likely were cast steel).

Chris